Another World

[j swift]

The thing I appreciate about Felicia, Donna, and Cecile in 1984 is that they valued sophistication.  They were all characters in their late 30's but their armor was hats and gloves and multiple layers of scarves.  They didn't want to look younger or trendy.  They wanted to communicate their power through their wardrobe and I think that is far more cool than the ath-leisure-look of today.

 

It is funny that Felicia, Donna, Cecile and, Rachel were all adolescents in the 60's but twenty years later they all embraced yuppie culture.  I wonder if Felicia Gallant was ever a Grateful Dead fan or if Donna Love was more of a Beatles or a Stones fan?

[DRW50]

 

I thought Todd was very handsome, but also adrift in generic writing and generic pairings. He and Anne Heche had chemistry, but even then, I didn't like that Marley was paired with him after he'd been with Vicky. The character also never felt all that tied to his family to me, even though he did share plenty of scenes with them.

 

Jamie was such a complex character under Bekins, and it seems like every Jamie after him was cookie cutter.

 

Great post, but Cecile wasn't in her late 30's.

 

I imagine Donna would have secretly listened to the Stones during her great teen love affair with Michael.

[amybrickwallace]

 

Not to mention that EW had been on the canvas as just Marley for a year before Vicky was added.

[j swift]

I am a big Stephen Yates fan; not only because of those short shorts he wore to Rachel,Mac, Sandy, and Blaine's wedding.  Yates and Bekins had the sort of energy that VW herself used in er younger days as Rachel.  It made sense that Jamie would be like Rachel because they were so close and she raised him for years on her own.  So, when Jamie was a bit of schemer (like when he wrote his book) or a bit dark (like when started taking drugs) it fit with the character.  Starting with Russel Todd and, continuing to Lau, Jamie started living in opposition to his mother.  He became a doctor like Russ, Rachel's first dull husband.  He was on the wrong side of the Vicky/Jake/Jamie triangle.  The last time that Jamie felt correct for me when he vied for Mac's attention with Sandy.  As viewers we knew it wasn't about the money, it was about this stranger usurping the only father Jamie knew.  It was so parallel with Rachel's longing for Steve that the stories seemed to share DNA.  Later, when Jamie became a hero and a drip he seemed more like Alice's son than Rachel's.

[Soaplovers]

 

That's why I rate Anne Heche as my favorite recast.. because she fought to make Marley a character instead of being seen as Vicky's boring twin.  Plus, it seemed like two different actresses were playing the characters when Anne was playing it especially during the rape trial.  When I would watch scenes with marley/Vicky when Anne Heche played it... it was like two different actresses and I could tell which twin was which.  Marley had a softer/gentler approach in facial expressions and vocal tones.. while Vicky had a more intense and dramatic delivery in her voice.

 

Ellen did better as Marley then Vicky... and despite Jenson's dislike of playing Marley.. she played Marley better then she played Vicky.

[vetsoapfan]

 

Sam Groom's Russ was "dull" to you? Or were you referring to David Bailey's tepid interpretation of the character? Alice was a "wimp"? Meaning the character in general, or thge portrayal by some of the weaker actresses in the role?

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by vetsoapfan

[j swift]

Yes I am referring to David Bailey's Russ and I know that he didn't play Russ when he was married to Rachel.

 

In terms of Alice, I could rant about her character (regardless of portrayal) for days.  Early in the Steve/Alice/Rachel triangle, Steve was often compelled by Alice because she was frail due to her hysterics and neuroses.  Rachel was upfront with Steve, encouraged his wild business sense, and believed in his vision.  Alice was always questioning "Steven" and trying to make him a better man.  She wanted "Steven" to be more like her father and brother.  She even manipulated him to sell his groovy penthouse and commission a Robert Delaney designed house for her in suburbs so she could be near her parents.  If the gender roles were reversed and a male character insisted on calling his girlfriend by her full name even though she preferred to be known by her nickname, and then told her to be less motivated by sex and money, that character would be portrayed as a villain.  Later Alice became a doctor and appeared more stable emotionally but she still went after Rachel's man! 

 

It's like the book Wicked, if you look at it from Rachel's perspective, Alice used her economic and social status to slut shamed her to the whole town, confined to her to a life as a single mother in the early 1970's, tried to interfere with her custody agreement and, she stole back the house when Steve died which left Rachel practically broke.  Then, years later, she swoops in when Rachel has amnesia and tries to steal Mac?!?   Alice was a wimpy mess and any attempt by Jamie to be more like the Matthews annoyed me.

 

I'm so glad to get that off my chest after 40 years!

Edited December 30, 2017 by j swift

[Soaplovers]

 

Actually from reading the history if the shoe..and talking to my mom who grew up during this triangle....she thought Alice and Rachel were too good for steven....and that he was the cause of all the heart ache cause he couldn't keep his pants zipped up....and played both women against each other...and gave mixed signals to both.

 

Rachel wasnt all evil (but she sure w asnt put upon like you ranted about)...and Alice wasn't all pure (but she sure w asnt the harpy you say she was).

 

 

[vetsoapfan]

 

Earlier in this thread, you wrote, "My first tv memories are of the special 60-minute wedding episode with the crane shot from the roof of Steve's house (that Robert Delany had designed) to the backyard wedding with Alice being upstaged by Iris's organza hat."

 

If your first memories of AW are May 3, 1974, doesn't that mean you came in AFTER the early years of the Alice/Steven/Rachel storyline, which ran from 1968-75?

 

Color me confused.

[denzo30]

I really loved Larry Lau as Jamie.  He also was also one of the longest running actors to play the role aside from Beckins. I just think all the characters in 88/89 were so great.   The character changed so much.  Bobby Doran played the role for years as a young teen but the actor who played him after for just a few months was like night and day but loved him.  He was the temp before Richard Beckons. 

 

[vetsoapfan]

 

ITA. Steven caused so much damage by being ambivalent and playing into both women's insecurities. Rachel had reasons for being the way she was, but some of her actions were immoral and gratuitously vicious. Some of the things she did to Russ and Alice were monstrous. Alice wanted nothing to do with Rachel, and went out of her way to dismiss her after Russ and Rachel divorced, but I did not blame her. I held nothing but scorn for Rachel at the time too.

[denzo30]

Holly Molly you really do have a psychological point of view on all of this.  Class really needs to be mentioned though.  Rachel was looking for something other than she knew and Alice always grew up expecting that she was going to have the perfect husband/life. But, I must mention, the Alice Mac steal thing happen before Rachel had amnesia?  Am I wrong.  JC returned back to role of Alice in 84 and the last lousy actress to play ALcie was in 81/82 and that was the love Alice/Mac relationship.  JC returned  and nothing between Alice and Mac.  Hence, when a role is requested, they are not the same people. 

[j swift]

I probably began watching in '74.  I was four and would come home from school for lunch and it was always on in the kitchen on the small black and white tv.  I also read the serialized paperbacks so I remember a lot about the triangle but I am hazy on the chronology.  Eventually the paperbacks were banned from our reading list for book reports because my teacher was not a fan.

 

 

1970's AW lent itself to  psychological exploration because so much of it was in the scripts.  As I recall, Ada used to explain Steve's motivations to Rachel frequently during their talks in the kitchen, and John Randolph or Robert Delaney were in charge of explaining Steve to the Matthews family. Oddly, as a kid, I really liked Willis and Gwen because they were constantly analyzing each other. 

 

 

This is why the Todd/Lau's Jamie period is such a disappointment to me because there was no exposition for why he changed character and Rachel never seemed to notice.  However, in retrospect I really liked the Jamie who was friends with Dennis as a kid.

 

BTW - I hope that we are involved in a lighthearted discussion of soaps past, I really don't intend to ruffle feathers, it is just great to have a place to express opinions about this trivial stuff that I used to think about all the time as kid.

 

[vetsoapfan]

 

Do you mean the Soaps & Serials novelizations? I personally thought they were dreadful, and their inaccuracies drove me crazy. If I had been your teacher, I would have banned them too, LOL!

 

I watched AW religiously throughout the Alice/Steven/Rachel triangle. If I missed more than five episodes between 1968 and 1975, I would be surprised.

 

I don't think it ruffles feathers to offer opinions, although I do admit it irks me when someone offers an opinion and states it's a fact which must never be questioned.

 

Actress Joan Bennett was the "name" star of Dark Shadows from 1966 to 1971, and an internet fan once wrote that JB loved her time playing the role of Elizabeth Stoddard; supposedly it had been the highlight of her professional career. Not only was this improbable even on the surface (Bennett had been in several Hollywood motion pictures, and daytime soaps are exhausting work and do not pay very well), but in her own autobiography, Bennett had made it clear she had not enjoyed her time on the show.

 

The fan became livid at being contradicted, and several sarcastic and huffy replies ensued. I tried patiently explaining that his OPINION about Bennett's experience on DS did not override what she had stated IN HER OWN WORDS, but to no avail.

 

That sort of interaction with touchy, obstinate fans is annoying. Offering a different point of view is not.

 

BTW, I was team Russ and Alice all the way. Rachel is lucky that I was not there when she was at her worst, tormenting the Matthews family. She would have been dead meat. Dead meat, I tell you. There were three times in particular when I would have literally smacked her into oblivion, LOL!

 

[Soaplovers]

 

Rachel didnt get off scott free... after all, Karma bought Iris into her life when she moved on from Steve to Mac.