4 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

They found out they were canceled on April 12th, 1999, I believe. 

Their last real work day was May 25th, 1999. I know some people were at the studio for several days after that but nothing like the full cast or crew. A friend says he was the last person at the studio & that day was Memorial Day.

I believe that NBC intentionally waited until the last possible minute to cancel the show.  P&G should have been more savvy knowing the show was on the chopping block. They should have had an outline to wrap up the show and if it was renewed plans for summer and fall 1999.

Goutman blundered the end of ATWT way more than he did AW.  He had 9 months to plan the end of ATWT.  It was cancelled in December and went off the air the following September.  Knowing this, did it ever occur to him to pretape an ending with 90+ year old Helen Wagner?  She died before filming was complete, and they gave her a one day funeral.  The vets were treated like glorified extras in the last episode, and a 54 year old program ended with a cheap plastic globe spinning on Dr. Bob’s desk.  ATWT’s ending was way worse then what happened at AW which had 6 weeks to wrap up.

8 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I love & adore Donna Swajeski! Both at AW & later at GL. The thing about her writing AW during the strike & yes technically that made her a scab but she crossed over from the network, where she was a producer, and many many times producers write shows during strikes. 

A friend of mine wrote for AW & also for ATWT. But then he left NY, went back to school, got his PhD & taught soaps & drama at the college level. So, he dropped his WGA membership of course. Then when the next strike came Goutman would FedEx him the outline & he'd FedEx back the next day a week of scripts to Goutman. He picked up some extra change. Goutman had someone very good writing his show, who knew the show. But technically he was a scab. 

Anyone who "crosses the picket line to work" is technically a scab. 

Anyway, so nice to make the acquaintance of another Swajeski fan!!! I'm still mad at NBC for making her so mad that she quit. 

 

Yeah, it's interesting to hear about the strikes and how writers feel about them. My friend didn't mind at all that the show continued while they were on strike. He understood the directors/actors/crew, etc. still needed jobs. And that there was never any danger of the strike not coming to a satisfactory conclusion - they always do. That's why corporations hate unions so much! LOL

I never heard that NBC made Swajeski mad enough that she quit. She had quite the tenure there though!

 

12 hours ago, teplin said:

From We Love Soaps:

John Randolph had ended his long-term marriage to Pat (Beverly Penberthy) and wed duplicitous Olive Gordon (Jennifer Leak) in March 1977. At Olive's insistence, the couple began building an elaborate new house designed by slithery architect Evan Webster. Soon Evan and Olive were having a torrid, adulterous affair. The Dec.16-19 shooting took place at the newly-finished house. John was in shock after the event; it was only after Olive arrived home and discovered Evan's body that John realized his wife's deception. Her hysterical reaction ("You killed him!" "Evan..") pushing her husband away in rage & disgust) told John the truth. 

John had a breakdown, became mute and was psychiatrically hospitalized. Eventually, he recovered and was cleared of charges. He and Olive divorced, but she ironically would cause his death in March 1979 (when he became trapped in a fire she set to kill Alice). 

Jennifer Leak was an outstanding (and since unsung) soap villainess in 1977. Long-term AW viewers will remember her doe-eyed act with John and tormenting Alice (by denying Ray a divorce) and blackmailing Molly Ordway to do her bidding ("Do you want to go back to the cows & pigs in Chadwell?") Olive came to Bay City as Raymond Gordon's (Ted Shackelford) estranged wife. The neglectful mother of two sons, Olive enticed her way in to John Randolph's office and life. She drove the final nail into the Randolph marriage by ingratiating herself with John's daughter, Marianne. All niceties stopped on her wedding day to John.

Thanks. I'll have to look for episodes from that timeframe. The summary certainly doesn't suggest Olive deserved any sympathy.

3 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

I always wondered why they never introduced Ray and Olive's sons

How old were the sons supposed to be? I watched a scene where Olive was talking about getting her divorce settlement from Ray (and whether he could make a condition that she return to California) and she mentioned her intention to bring the boys to Bay City once she had the money. If they were minor children it seems odd that neither parent seemed to have custody.

4 hours ago, chrisml said:

Ed Fry's Adam was another charming actor/character who didn't do much after they did the retcon on MJ. I think he had more chemistry with Anne Heche than Laurence Lau (who is one of the few actors who does not play well on rewatches).

Poor Adam flirted a little bit with both Lisa and Victoria after MJ left. Unfortunately I don't think that the 1986-87 era was very attentive to defining networks of relationships outside a character's  primary storyline and when that storyline dried up they could find themselves at a very loose end. 

Ed Fry was charming. I even liked Laurence Lau with him when they talked as if Jamie and Adam had known each other as children. 

4 hours ago, chrisml said:

the character of Scott baffles me. In rewatching the show, it feels as if there were big plans for his character that just never got plotted (more than just the nature of his parentage). I wonder what kept the different stories from going forward.

I think part of it was that Reginald absorbed too much energy from everyone generally. Scott's primary story was his romance with Cheryl which was interrupted by his romance with Dawn. The conflict in the Cheryl story was supposed to be that their fathers were enemies fighting for Mary and I guess that Cheryl was an innocent virgin. Maybe they would have opened up Scott's story more if they hadn't decided to go with the Dawn storyline. But in a way I think Scott was also hampered by the fact that characters weren't well-integrated outside their primary storylines at the time. They don't have to be close friends with everyone -- they shouldn't be! -- but they should show the degrees of separation from time to time. 

8 hours ago, watson71 said:

I believe that NBC intentionally waited until the last possible minute to cancel the show.  P&G should have been more savvy knowing the show was on the chopping block.

The shows had deadlines for their ratings to be whatever they were supposed to be. Those deadlines were in late May, end of I believe. Susan D. Lee moved up the cancelation, even calling MADD back into the country from one of her foreign trips to do the thing. It is not known why Lee did this. 

8 hours ago, watson71 said:

They should have had an outline to wrap up the show and if it was renewed plans for summer and fall 1999.

We're really not in a position to know what kinds of contingency plans P&G/AW did or didn't have. I agree with you that they definitely should have had contingency plans. 

8 hours ago, watson71 said:

Goutman blundered the end of ATWT way more than he did AW.

I agree 1000% with this. A different man was at ATWT the last several years than was at AW its last several years. 

8 hours ago, watson71 said:

 He had 9 months to plan the end of ATWT.  It was cancelled in December and went off the air the following September.  Knowing this, did it ever occur to him to pretape an ending with 90+ year old Helen Wagner?  She died before filming was complete, and they gave her a one day funeral.  The vets were treated like glorified extras in the last episode, and a 54 year old program ended with a cheap plastic globe spinning on Dr. Bob’s desk.  ATWT’s ending was way worse then what happened at AW which had 6 weeks to wrap up.

And the real ending was planned around Helen Wagner, who died mere weeks before it would have been taped. 

Also, the rest here, where you compare Goutman/Ending/AW/ATWT, yes, totally agree. Also Goutman did specific destructive things to the show & the cast in the last several years. He did nothing like that at AW End. Plus, ATWT went from being the happiest set anywhere to miserable people. 

I was just discussing this with a friend the other day. They pointed out the situation with Goutman & Martha Byrne & said that was when they knew of it starting, which may have been the first destructive act. And he did that Q&A with Jen from Digest where he said he did not want to  hear from fans because he knew what the show needed. What is true about that is that she gave him a chance to unsay that, asking him if he was sure he wanted it to sound that way.

Edited March 29, 20241 yr by Contessa Donatella

13 minutes ago, adrnyc said:

Yeah, it's interesting to hear about the strikes and how writers feel about them. My friend didn't mind at all that the show continued while they were on strike. He understood the directors/actors/crew, etc. still needed jobs. And that there was never any danger of the strike not coming to a satisfactory conclusion - they always do. That's why corporations hate unions so much! LOL

When FiCore was instituted soap writers were set at odds against each other over it. Pro & Con, very strong feelings. Some of that still exists. 

And, like pre-FiCore if a show hired a scab on to write after a strike was over, the WGA fined the show to penalize them for giving a job to a non-union member over a union member.

FiCore are dues-paying union members who can never vote, never serve on a committee, never hold office, etc. For what they give up they can write during a strike. (Their benefits like health insurance & retirement maybe stay intact.) Now if a show hires a FiCore scab to write after a strike there is no fine & no penalty because it's a union member.

But, yeah, writers are glad to see the shows go on because everyone knows if they close the doors, they won't be opened back up. 

But, it is complicated! LOL Whew. 

13 minutes ago, adrnyc said:

I never heard that NBC made Swajeski mad enough that she quit. She had quite the tenure there though!

Swajeski wrote it that Jake tried to convince Marley that she loved him & not to divorce him. NBC said she had to write it that Jake raped her. She said he never would. They battled over it. Finally, she gave in & wrote it their way, but in her head she decided at that moment, that as soon as her contract was up she was outta there. 

But, I do have to point out that Anne won an Emmy with that story on her reel. 🤔🙄😲🤪🙃

But, personally I never ever thought Jake would have raped Marley! I was amazed when I found that was also Swajeski's personal opinion. 

7 hours ago, Xanthe said:

How old were the sons supposed to be? I watched a scene where Olive was talking about getting her divorce settlement from Ray (and whether he could make a condition that she return to California) and she mentioned her intention to bring the boys to Bay City once she had the money. If they were minor children it seems odd that neither parent seemed to have custody.

Idk the exact age but I’m pretty sure they were supposed to be young. I’m guessing Olive was supposed to have primary custody as well, but now I’m wondering who was taking care of them when their parents and Beatrice were all in Bay City at the same time. 

3 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Idk the exact age but I’m pretty sure they were supposed to be young. I’m guessing Olive was supposed to have primary custody as well, but now I’m wondering who was taking care of them when their parents and Beatrice were all in Bay City at the same time. 

I read through some of the 1976 synopses, and they say that the boys were 8 and 10 years old and that Olive had gone with them to her sister Doris in California. Before Olive shows up Ray tells Alice that Olive is marrying another man and then a couple of months later it turns out that Olive and the other man have broken it off. Not long after that Willis goes to California and arranges to pay Doris and send the boys to camp in British Columbia. At the end of the summer even though Ray has been portrayed as a theoretically devoted father, while he and Olive and Beatrice are all in Bay City, he is fine that the boys are staying with Doris. I have not yet read through 1977-78 to see whether they have any good explanation for why they remain with Doris for such a long time. 

I also note in passing that the bust of Mac that Robert destroyed had been recently sculpted by Rachel and given to Iris as a present. 

11 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

I read through some of the 1976 synopses, and they say that the boys were 8 and 10 years old and that Olive had gone with them to her sister Doris in California. Before Olive shows up Ray tells Alice that Olive is marrying another man and then a couple of months later it turns out that Olive and the other man have broken it off. Not long after that Willis goes to California and arranges to pay Doris and send the boys to camp in British Columbia. At the end of the summer even though Ray has been portrayed as a theoretically devoted father, while he and Olive and Beatrice are all in Bay City, he is fine that the boys are staying with Doris. I have not yet read through 1977-78 to see whether they have any good explanation for why they remain with Doris for such a long time. 

Kinda sad the way those boys got passed around from person to person lol their anger and resentment could have led to a good storyline once they were older

2 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Kinda sad the way those boys got passed around from person to person lol their anger and resentment could have led to a good storyline once they were older

It's really rather strange that they were kept offscreen for the entire duration of Olive and Ray and Beatrice. I'm sure that there were probably some details that didn't make it into the synopses but it seems very odd that at the very least John would not have expected Olive to want to bring the boys to live with them once they were married. It almost seems as if there was no intention to make Olive a longterm character when she was first mentioned, and the children were just there to add colour to Ray's background, and then when Olive was brought to town and kept on staying they were such an inconvenience that Lemay shrugged and said they were with Doris and nobody missed them. And yet on the other hand hadn't Beatrice come to town because Alice had adopted her biological granddaughter Sally? Why so much less interest in her grandsons?

Still at the synopsis level, it seems as if Olive almost instantly jumps into bed with Evan Webster and starts scheming with him to design the house according to requirements that are different from what John wants just in order to show how very bad she is. Given where she ends up I am not holding out much hope that she will be extended much empathy that could explain any of her villainy.

26 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

And yet on the other hand hadn't Beatrice come to town because Alice had adopted her biological granddaughter Sally? Why so much less interest in her grandsons?

Maybe she tried to make up for it later on because when she left Bay City, it was said that she went to go take care of them. 😂

In his Locher Room interview today, Stephen Schnetzer announced that he will be returning to DAYS as Julie’s brother, Steve Olson, for several episodes.  

9 minutes ago, watson71 said:

In his Locher Room interview today, Stephen Schnetzer announced that he will be returning to DAYS as Julie’s brother, Steve Olson, for several episodes.  

WOW!!! I posted that I wanted that to happen several weeks ago. 

12 minutes ago, watson71 said:

In his Locher Room interview today, Stephen Schnetzer announced that he will be returning to DAYS as Julie’s brother, Steve Olson, for several episodes.  

The caveat being that Ron Carlivati is still writing. The sharpest of double-edged swords.

Wowwwwwww 😮😁😁

Despite how it could be written, I'm looking forward to it.

3 hours ago, Xanthe said:

Olive almost instantly jumps into bed with Evan Webster and starts scheming with him to design the house according to requirements that are different from what John wants just in order to show how very bad she is.

The house that John built for Olive was likely the largest set ever on Another World up to that time.  Although it was never described as a mansion, as Iris's house and Mac and Rachel's house had, the set for Olive and John's house was much larger than either. It was very modern in design and decor.  And from left to right, it had essentially four different spaces where scenes could play out.  First there was a small porch outside the front door, next was a foyer, then a living room, and finally another room rather like a den. And again, all very modern and completely different from Iris's or the Cory's house.   I believe the intent was to demonstrate that Olive was "new money," and eager to show it off.  Although John was certainly never a millionaire, he was a very successful attorney, and he went heavily into debt to satisfy his new young wife.  Sad that she was cheating on him with the architect.  Does anyone else remember this set?

1 hour ago, watson71 said:

In his Locher Room interview today, Stephen Schnetzer announced that he will be returning to DAYS as Julie’s brother, Steve Olson, for several episodes.  

This is great news!! Steve Olson should have been on DOOL for years now -- stirring up trouble for the Horton clan.  I'm speculating Steve will show-up for Doug's funeral.  There are also rumors that a certain former nun (played by the original actress) will return for the service.  We can only hope!

Edited March 29, 20241 yr by Mona Kane Croft