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This is Beverlee McKinsey in Mar. 1985 outside the studio. If you have not yet signed my petition for her please do so because this week I am sending it to NATAS.

22 hours ago, DRW50 said:

A very fun Cecile and Donna scene in this. Carl and Donna too. Anna Stuart really was divine to watch when not weighed down by Michael and sanctimonious writing.

David Oliver was so lovely.

1983 through parts of 1984 was a good revival period for the show. I'm sorry it all went aground again.

 

Thank you. I wish there were more -- I would love to see all the parts of Donna encouraging Cecile to comfort Peter and the reveal of Kevin Thatcher. 

Carl was chilling.  

I do wish though that the David Thatcher murder had been more personal or more organized crime related. Emily's motive of general opposition to the baby ring was confusing and possibly misplaced. I wonder how early the story was decided. I see Alexandra Neil as Emily Benson didn't appear until June 5, weeks after David's murder.

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

Thank you. I wish there were more -- I would love to see all the parts of Donna encouraging Cecile to comfort Peter and the reveal of Kevin Thatcher. 

Carl was chilling.  

I do wish though that the David Thatcher murder had been more personal or more organized crime related. Emily's motive of general opposition to the baby ring was confusing and possibly misplaced. I wonder how early the story was decided. I see Alexandra Neil as Emily Benson didn't appear until June 5, weeks after David's murder.

If I'm not mistaken, David Thatcher had a huge fight with someone in the Matthews living room (I think the fight was with Sally).  Anyway -- I believe these scenes were the final scenes that showed the entire Matthews living room set.  The scenes included the front door, foyer, and staircase, also the entire living room from the side window to the front windows, and back around to the hallway toward the kitchen (kitchen not shown) and the entire fireplace.   Does anyone remember seeing the entire set, including the fireplace later than the episode I am describing?   Even when Jacquie Courtney returned in 1984-85 and stayed for about a year, I don't think the camera ever went far enough left to show the fireplace.   I may be wrong, but can anyone verify it?   Thanks . . .

19 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

If I'm not mistaken, David Thatcher had a huge fight with someone in the Matthews living room (I think the fight was with Sally).  Anyway -- I believe these scenes were the final scenes that showed the entire Matthews living room set.  The scenes included the front door, foyer, and staircase, also the entire living room from the side window to the front windows, and back around to the hallway toward the kitchen (kitchen not shown) and the entire fireplace.   Does anyone remember seeing the entire set, including the fireplace later than the episode I am describing?   Even when Jacquie Courtney returned in 1984-85 and stayed for about a year, I don't think the camera ever went far enough left to show the fireplace.   I may be wrong, but can anyone verify it?   Thanks . . .

I haven't found anything specific that answers your question but is the Matthews house that Liz and Sally and Julia and Alice were in in 1984 supposed to be Jim and Mary's house, or is it Liz's house and if so was it the same house from 1964 to 1984 or had she moved?

19 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

If I'm not mistaken, David Thatcher had a huge fight with someone in the Matthews living room (I think the fight was with Sally).  Anyway -- I believe these scenes were the final scenes that showed the entire Matthews living room set.  The scenes included the front door, foyer, and staircase, also the entire living room from the side window to the front windows, and back around to the hallway toward the kitchen (kitchen not shown) and the entire fireplace.   Does anyone remember seeing the entire set, including the fireplace later than the episode I am describing?   Even when Jacquie Courtney returned in 1984-85 and stayed for about a year, I don't think the camera ever went far enough left to show the fireplace.   I may be wrong, but can anyone verify it?   Thanks . . .

According to AWHP, it lasted until May 1986, which was the end of the Matthews family until Liz was brought back the following year. 

Edited March 18, 20241 yr by AbcNbc247

30 minutes ago, Xanthe said:

I haven't found anything specific that answers your question but is the Matthews house that Liz and Sally and Julia and Alice were in in 1984 supposed to be Jim and Mary's house, or is it Liz's house and if so was it the same house from 1964 to 1984 or had she moved?

It was Jim and Mary's house.  Liz moved in after Jim died.

26 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

According to AWHP, it lasted until May 1986, which was the end of the Matthews family until Liz was brought back the following year. 

I was very disappointed when the gave Liz a home again when Russ and Olivia arrived in 1989 but it was a different set.  I love the continuity of sets.  You can refresh them but a least keep them recognizable.

2 minutes ago, Efulton said:

I was very disappointed when the gave Liz a home again when Russ and Olivia arrived in 1989 but it was a different set.  I love the continuity of sets.  You can refresh them but a least keep them recognizable.

I guess the original set was dismantled in 1986, but it would’ve been nice if they had built an exact replica for Liz to live in. 

1 hour ago, Xanthe said:

I haven't found anything specific that answers your question but is the Matthews house that Liz and Sally and Julia and Alice were in in 1984 supposed to be Jim and Mary's house, or is it Liz's house and if so was it the same house from 1964 to 1984 or had she moved?

Yes, the house Liz, Alice, etc. lived in in 1984 was Jim and Mary's house.  It was never really explained why Liz moved in there.  But at some point after Jim died and Alice (Linda Borgeson version) had left town, Liz was suddenly living there with Sally.  

Starting with the AW premiere in 1964, Liz lived in a large fancy house, much nicer than Jim and Mary's.  Although no long-time viewers seem to remember much about Liz's original set, there are several existing photos showing small parts of the interior of that house.  Seen in the photos are a large staircase, a large fireplace, and a grand piano. Liz left town around 1971, and Liz's house was never seen again.  When Liz returned around 1974, played by Irene Daily, Liz lived in two or three different apartments over the years.  Then around 1983, she was suddenly living in Jim and Mary's house, where she lived until Liz was written off again in 1986. Jim and Mary's house was never seen again after that.  When Liz returned at Thanksgiving 1988, I don't remember where she lived, or if they even spoke of her home.  But she definitely didn't move back into Jim and Mary's old house.   

1 hour ago, AbcNbc247 said:

According to AWHP, it lasted until May 1986, which was the end of the Matthews family until Liz was brought back the following year. 

Yes, they still used much of the set until 1986.  But I don't think they used the entire set by that point.  Mostly just the front door, foyer, stairs, and the part of the living room toward the front windows. The original set was about a third larger, with a hallway to the kitchen and a fireplace to the far left, opposite the front windows.

Was it ever explained how Liz went from being a wealthy widow to Mac's secretary?  I loved Liz's scenes at the Cory complex but it never made sense from what I read about Audra Lindley's version of Liz for her to be working.

10 hours ago, Efulton said:

Was it ever explained how Liz went from being a wealthy widow to Mac's secretary?  I loved Liz's scenes at the Cory complex but it never made sense from what I read about Audra Lindley's version of Liz for her to be working.

I totally get your point.  To make it worse, Liz's first job at the Cory Complex was as the switchboard operator (not secretary). Which made Liz almost laughable as a complete stereotype -- the nosey meddling old lady working at the switchboard. During this period, Pat Randolph was Mac's secretary. A couple of years later when Pat was promoted to editor, Liz took Pat's old job as Mac's secretary. And weirdly enough, all of this was written by Harding Lemay, who typically prided himself on writing "true to character".  It seemed Lemay wanted to have it both ways with Liz, and wrote whatever he wanted for her. For the most part, Lemay preserved Liz's wealth by having her and Iris become very close friends; by reconnecting Liz with her old wealthy friend, Helen Moore; and by having Liz date Mac briefly.   But on the other hand, there was almost no explanation as to why Liz would accept a job as a switchboard operator.  There were a few vague references to her being bored with life, and that a job might help prevent her from meddling in the lives of her nieces and nephew.   And as the years went by, and later head writers diluted Liz's backstory more and more, Liz became rather middle-class, and was used mostly as comic relief.  Audra Lindley played Liz as the Phoebe Tyler of Bay City (minus the drinking problem), but Lemay wrote Liz differently.  And post-Lemay head writers continued that trend, sadly.  

Edited March 19, 20241 yr by Mona Kane Croft

3 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

I totally get your point.  To make it worse, Liz's first job at the Cory Complex was as the switchboard operator (not secretary). Which made Liz almost laughable as a complete stereotype -- the nosey meddling old lady working at the switchboard. During this period, Pat Randolph was Mac's secretary. A couple of years later when Pat was promoted to editor, Liz took Pat's old job as Mac's secretary. And weirdly enough, all of this was written by Harding Lemay, who typically prided himself on writing "true to character".  It seemed Lemay wanted to have it both ways with Liz, and wrote whatever he wanted for her. For the most part, Lemay preserved Liz's wealth by having her and Iris become very close friends; by reconnecting Liz with her old wealthy friend, Helen Moore; and by having Liz date Mac briefly.   But on the other hand, there was almost no explanation as to why Liz would accept a job as a switchboard operator.  There were a few vague references to her being board with life, and that a job might help prevent her from meddling in the lives of her nieces and nephew.   And as the years went by, and later head writers diluted Liz's backstory more and more, Liz became rather middle-class, and was used mostly as comic relief.  Audra Lindley played Liz as the Phoebe Tyler of Bay City (minus the drinking problem), but Lemay wrote Liz differently.  And post-Lemay head writers continued that trend, sadly.  

It's too bad they didn't do more with Liz buying into Nicole's fashion business. 

(I suppose the strike writers came up with that - unless it was Lemay).

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

It's too bad they didn't do more with Liz buying into Nicole's fashion business. 

(I suppose the strike writers came up with that - unless it was Lemay).

Yes, Liz did seem to have plenty of expendable money when she partnered with Nicole in the fashion business.  But Lemay probably wanted to get Liz firmly back into the Cory family's orbit as quickly as possible so he could write the Matthew/Liz conflict.  So Lemay may have minimized her interaction at the fashion business.  I don't remember if Liz ended her partnership with Nicole, or it just faded away.  

23 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Yes, the house Liz, Alice, etc. lived in in 1984 was Jim and Mary's house.  It was never really explained why Liz moved in there.  But at some point after Jim died and Alice (Linda Borgeson version) had left town, Liz was suddenly living there with Sally.  

Starting with the AW premiere in 1964, Liz lived in a large fancy house, much nicer than Jim and Mary's.  Although no long-time viewers seem to remember much about Liz's original set, there are several existing photos showing small parts of the interior of that house.  Seen in the photos are a large staircase, a large fireplace, and a grand piano. Liz left town around 1971, and Liz's house was never seen again.  When Liz returned around 1974, played by Irene Daily, Liz lived in two or three different apartments over the years.  Then around 1983, she was suddenly living in Jim and Mary's house, where she lived until Liz was written off again in 1986. Jim and Mary's house was never seen again after that.  When Liz returned at Thanksgiving 1988, I don't remember where she lived, or if they even spoke of her home.  But she definitely didn't move back into Jim and Mary's old house.   

Yes, they still used much of the set until 1986.  But I don't think they used the entire set by that point.  Mostly just the front door, foyer, stairs, and the part of the living room toward the front windows. The original set was about a third larger, with a hallway to the kitchen and a fireplace to the far left, opposite the front windows.

Liz was the matriach of the family at this point so its not hard to believe that she would be living there.  The Matthews home and she was part of the legacy to continue it

23 hours ago, Efulton said:

Was it ever explained how Liz went from being a wealthy widow to Mac's secretary?  I loved Liz's scenes at the Cory complex but it never made sense from what I read about Audra Lindley's version of Liz for her to be working.

Audra's Liz was a completely different character.  Lemay wanted Virginia Dywer gone (Mary Matthews) which is how they bought Liz Matthews back as a kinder, nicer person than the previous actresses who portrayed Liz.  Mixing in Irene Daily's version of Liz fit more into the fabric of the show at the time. I will admit though, Irene Daily and Audra Lindley really did express many of the same characteristics. Especially when I watch Threes Company and see Audra's dramatic reactions.

Reading AWHP I was reminded that in the '60s there was a restaurant called Top of the Tower. Was there ever any indication that TOPS was meant to be a continuation of that restaurant?

50 minutes ago, denzo30 said:

Liz was the matriach of the family at this point so its not hard to believe that she would be living there.  The Matthews home and she was part of the legacy to continue it

Well, except that Liz never really liked Jim and Mary.  And living in their middle-class house would have been beneath her, and probably the last place Liz would have ever wanted to live.  But other than that, yeah.