2 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Nancy was 8! Oh, well. I honestly do not recall any older women pregnancies but Ada's and at the end-ish Victoria, of course. 

There wasn't enough context in the bit I was quoting -- it was from the Corinne Jacker article so it specifically meant 1982. Gail Brown would have turned 45 in 1982 but I am not sure whether *Clarice* was intended to be as old as that. Was she young and foolish when she had Cory with Robert Delaney, or merely unmarried and foolish? And if I were Jacker I might not have been boasting of a contemporary geriatric pregnancy storyline in 1982 when it had already been done years before with Ada.

Not sure if this article has been discussed before, but while I was pondering the problem of Clarice's age I came across it. It claims that Clarice was the first "continuing" comedic character in daytime soaps.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-kane-republican-gail-brown/76993998/

10 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

So was anything changed in Ada's living room to be repurposed as the Shea's? Like ornaments, sofa etc? That lattice work at the entrance is quite distinctive and I'm sure even viewers who didn't pay much attention to sets would have noticed.

I just watched a few scenes in the posted episode.  Yes, the set has been painted and the furniture and curtains are nicer than Ada had.  I think the lattice work may be new, as I don't remember that feature when it was Ada's set.  Generally the entire set is brighter and less drab than when it was Ada's living room, when it looked a lot more worn and working-class.  But the Shea's were also working class, so not sure where they got those fancy curtains.  LOL.  

If anyone wants to do a more thorough comparison, there is a lengthy scene somewhere on Youtube in Ada's living room from 1979, between Ada and Rachel.  It's a well known scene when Ada tells the story of hearing Rachel cry at night missing her father, and Ada admits she could not give to Rachel what she really needed -- her father's love.  In that scene, you'll get a good look at Ada's version of that set.  Not to mention, this 1979 scene should have won Emmy's for both actresses and the writer. If you are a long term AW viewer, this scene just might make you cry.   There used to be two versions of this scene on Youtube -- a short edited version and a long version.  The long version is better, of course.   

Edited December 2, 20231 yr by Mona Kane Croft

7 hours ago, Xanthe said:

It claims that Clarice was the first "continuing" comedic character in daytime soaps.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-kane-republican-gail-brown/76993998/

Oh boy -- Here we go again with another incorrect "first!"  What is it with all these claims of daytime "firsts" that are just plain wrong??  Clarice was certainly not the first continuing comedic (I prefer the word humorous) character on daytime.  By the way, I am not blaming Xanthe for this false information, Xanthe merely shared it with us.  The blame should go to the person who wrote the original article.  

There have been continuing humorous characters on daytime since day-one.  And by 1975 (the year Clarice was introduced) there had been dozens.  Particularly, Agnes Nixon's version of AW contained ongoing humorous characters, not to mention the humor Nixon later used on All My Children.  And please never forget, while Harding Lemay was writing AW, Clarice was as tragic as she was humorous. 

In the Irna Phillips universe there were small cities clustered near each other. They were Oakdale, Illinois [ATWT], Flat Rock, Centerville, Somerset, [itself] Bedfordtown, Brookville, Ogden, Centerville, Bay City, Illinois, [AW]. – Donna L Bridges (These were supposed to represent the actual bedroom suburbs around Cincinnati, where P&G's International Headquarters were.)

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Particularly, Agnes Nixon's version of AW contained ongoing humorous characters, not to mention the humor Nixon later used on All My Children.  And please never forget, while Harding Lemay was writing AW, Clarice was as tragic as she was humorous. 

I am always interested in interrogating these claims and testing what they mean or don't mean. As mentioned in the article, Clarice was originally intended to be very short term (3 days) but they liked Gail Brown and created a longer-term story for her. It's not clear to me where the author of the article pulled the claim from -- did the show provide the description? Did Gail offer it as part of the interview? Was it a description with currency in the soap press? -- but could it be possible that Clarice was the first character created as comic relief who went on to have a dramatic story of her own (as opposed to being in a long-running supporting role)? 

[Disclaimer: In defining firsts, we can prove that X is not "the first" if we can prove that Y was earlier -- but that doesn't necessarily mean that Y is the actual first until we prove that nothing else was earlier than Y. So Bay City being in Michigan can prove that Ryan's Hope is not the first soap to be set in a real location, but does not prove that Another World was the first.]

Meanwhile, was Gail Brown ever able to give an interview when they didn't mention her sister?

Clarice is worthy of praise in any form.  It is a rarity that we get someone with even slightly unconventional beauty as well as such a well-rounded character.  It is interesting how many times that they tried to create a family around her.  First the McGowens, then the Hobsons, and the Eweings (AW really had a thing for copying Dallas).  I feel like saddling her with Larry, who was an uncharismatic character played by an actor that by certain accounts was difficult to get along with on set, really doomed Clarice. 

However, it was remarkable to read on AWHP that she returned for Ada's funeral, I had no memory of that.

Edited December 2, 20231 yr by j swift

50 minutes ago, j swift said:

First the McGowens, then the Hobsons, and the Eweings (AW really had a thing for copying Dallas). 

According to Pete, the Ewings & the Corringtons were taken from him, not the other way around. 

1 hour ago, j swift said:

However, it was remarkable to read on AWHP that she returned for Ada's funeral, I had no memory of that.

Oh yes, it was very touching. Remember, Clarice's father Charlie was married to Ada at the time of his death making Clarice the stepsister of Rachel and Nancy. There was a delay in getting Ada's body to the church or wherever the funeral was being held so this gave the three "sisters" an opportunity to reminisce.

2 hours ago, Xanthe said:

could it be possible that Clarice was the first character created as comic relief who went on to have a dramatic story of her own (as opposed to being in a long-running supporting role)? 

Well,  Lahoma Vain Lucas would be an earlier example of this from AW. She was a humorous character who had dramatic material also.  And, although I'm not an expert on early All My Children, I'm confident Agnes Nixon used humorous characters (who also had dramatic storylines) on AMC before 1975. We'd need someone who knows early AMC to provide the specifics.  And even before Nixon, there had been humorous characters.  Just because I (or you) can't name them does not mean that Clarice was the first.   

2 hours ago, Xanthe said:

[Disclaimer: In defining firsts, we can prove that X is not "the first" if we can prove that Y was earlier -- but that doesn't necessarily mean that Y is the actual first until we prove that nothing else was earlier than Y.

But the opposite is not necessarily accurate either.  Just because I might not remember a humorous character on daytime earlier than Clarice, does not mean I should go around claiming she was the first.  Or maybe I don't remember a soap opera matriarch earlier than Nancy Hughes.  But that doesn't give me the license to post that Nancy Hughes was the first matriarch on a soap.  Being a soap opera "first" has nothing to do with someone's memory.  It should have everything to do with the truth -- not just what I remember.   But I have come to believe that is what people are doing. Another example -- I don't remember a female journalist on a soap before Mary Ryann.  So I'm going to post online that Mary Ryan was the first female journalist on daytime.  That is just crazy thinking.  

I guess what I'm saying is: In my opinion, if a person is going to post something as fact, it is that person's responsibility to prove they are correct.  It is not everyone else's responsibility to prove them wrong.   But that doesn't seem to be how it works with soap opera history.   Again, crazy.

Edited December 2, 20231 yr by Mona Kane Croft

One other point about Clarice - tangentially

It was mentioned in 1982 that Ada and Clarice closed their salon.  It's a shame that more US soaps couldn't establish a hair salon as a consistent meeting place within their show.  I'm not talking about nutty spas with scifi youth serums.   In the UK, Corrie's hair salon has been the site of multiple stories, as it is a logical setting where people of different classes can get together and talk about recent events.  For example, I don't think Rachel and Paulina would hang out at the same diner, but it is reasonable that they would see each other while getting a blow out before an event in Bay City.

Edited December 2, 20231 yr by j swift

2 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

In my opinion, if a person is going to post something as fact, it is that person's responsibility to prove they are correct.

ITA.  For example, Blaine Ewing was introduced three months after the premiere of Dallas.

Edited December 2, 20231 yr by j swift

35 minutes ago, j swift said:

ITA.  For example, Blaine Ewing was introduced three months after the premiere of Dallas.

Interesting.  I was watching both shows at the time, but had forgotten the chronology.  Funny, but I do recall an interview in which Harding Lemay claimed that both the Ewings of Dallas and the Carringtons of Dynasty had been named because of his characters on AW.  I guess Lemay's ego got in the way yet again.  LOL.   But I still love him anyway.  

 

 

 

 

Blaine could've been in development early, but I don't know how David Jacobs would have known her name

 

 

And, given that they were nine years apart, there could've been multiple reasons for sharing the same last name including

Unless, Harding Lemay wants to take credit for naming

But, it is doubtful 😉

 

Edited December 2, 20231 yr by j swift

4 hours ago, China Jones said:

Oh yes, it was very touching. Remember, Clarice's father Charlie was married to Ada at the time of his death making Clarice the stepsister of Rachel and Nancy. There was a delay in getting Ada's body to the church or wherever the funeral was being held so this gave the three "sisters" an opportunity to reminisce.

Clarice being there was so important. It is certainly engraved in my memory.

And, Ada's body went to a different city. 

1 hour ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Interesting.  I was watching both shows at the time, but had forgotten the chronology.  Funny, but I do recall an interview in which Harding Lemay claimed that both the Ewings of Dallas and the Carringtons of Dynasty had been named because of his characters on AW.  I guess Lemay's ego got in the way yet again.  LOL.   But I still love him anyway.  

WOW. Yes, Pete said it. Dadgummit, he was wrong. And, yes, I still love him but from now on I'm going to fact check him! 

Stu Bergman was definitely a light hearted humorous character on search for Tomorrow.And he was introduced in 1951!