Another World Discussion Thread

[Contessa Donatella]

Twice after the show ended, two Junes after 1998, on the weekend closest to June 25th we had two fan gatherings. Sat. at Blondie's Sun. Central Park, the AW Fan Bench. In Manhattan there were actors with us. At the Park, none joined in. The first time we were raising money for the Bench. There were some tears. We had planned on watching the finale on the giant screens. But Linda hadn't watched it yet & she didn't think she could bear it, so we did not.

We auctioned off some items in our fund-raising. One of Victoria's sculptures. One of the paintings from the Cory living room. A copy of 8 Yrs in AW. I had 2 copies so I donated one to the cause. That's before the epilogue made the Kindle version available, so it was incredibly rare. We got over a thousand for it. About a thousand for the sculpture. I think the painting went for 700. After that we made the videos. Lovely Ada, Cory Christmases, MacRac & Carl & Rachel. By the second year we had come up with the $5,000 for the Bench. 

Actors: Linda Dano, Stephen Schnetzer, Anna Stuart, Gail Brown, Mark Pinter, Ricky Paull Goldin, Lawrence Lau, ... 

[j swift]

I've been thinking about the character of Sofia Carlino.  Earlier, I remarked upon how Maggie changed with each recasting, but then I recalled that Sofia changed a bit toward the end of her time in Bay City. 

We all know the old adage of if it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. Well, I was inspired to watch more of Dahlia Salem's work after I read her wiki and learned that she had debuted on Broadway and acted with Al Pacino and Mercedes Ruehl.  I also watched her on the AW reunion with Alan Locher.  As it turns out, she is very engaging and charismatic.  She's one of those actresses that was saddled with being an ingénue, but has much more to offer.

I don't recall what inspired the character's turn, or if she just got fed up with Maggie and then Lila interfering in her romances.  But, I feel like I underestimated her when I suggested that whole generation of characters was boring.

Edited November 19, 2023 by j swift

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, you have edited out what you wrote about the AW Fan Bench in Central Park. But I am going to speak to the references to it. First I would mention one or more trolls who wanted to start something pretending they wanted to do a Jerry verDorn bench. Next is a handful of people making good-natured jokes about Ron Carlivati benches & what they might look like. It is mentioned in a description of of a Photo Album. Next & possibly most signifcant is about the videos that were made as a fund-raising tool but which can now be enjoyed on YouTube.

[Contessa Donatella]

I don't know if anyone else has any interest in the print ads that used to run but when I run into them I admit to being a little fascinated. Some new ones to me: one all NBC lineup with Iris but on TEXAS & one with Cecile, strictly AW. 

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[j swift]

@Mona Kane Croft I recall the circumstances of Iris finding out she was adopted, but do you recall how she found out that the adoption had been retconed?

Also, around the time that Sandy came to Bay City, Mac promised Jamey that he would be in the will, did that pan out later?

[Mona Kane Croft]

In one of her early scenes in 1989, Iris told Mac that Sylvie had told her that Sylvie and Mac had an affair years earlier, and that Mac was Iris's bio-father.  Completely unnecessary to retcon the original story.  Everything Iris did in 1989 could have gone forward with Mac as her adopted father.   

If I'm not mistaken, this conversation occured during one of Swajeski's first episodes credited as head-writer.  So it's possible Swajeski chose to do the retcon herself, or it is equally possible Lemay had planned the retcon and it was in his storyline projection, which Swajeski used for months.  She followed some of Lemay's plans, and ditched others in favor of her own ideas

Edited November 19, 2023 by Mona Kane Croft

[Khan]

It's funny how Lemay personally abhorred plot-heavy writing; yet, in the times when he was forced to do it - Iris' real mother, Sven, the Greg Barnard murder - people actually really liked it, lol.

[Soaplovers]

@Mona Kane Croft  

Thank you for that compliment.. it's probably due to the fact that I originally went to college to study to be a therapist so that's why I seem to have somewhat of a handle on psychological drama.

@Khan

To your point, I actually think how Iris was written in the late 80s/early 90s was pretty good.. though the last few months of 1994 derailed a lot of what made Iris tick (i.e. more plot driven then character driven).

The only silver lining of Mac's death was how it changed Rachel and Iris.. and how they interacted with one another.

Iris and Mac were on the outs due to the takeover attempt when he passed away so she had immense guilt over never resolving her issues with him.  This drastically affected her as a person for the next 5 years or so of her stint on the show.

Iris/Rachel became unlikely allies and occasionally even had fun together when they weren't bickering.  They were allies when Paulina came into the picture, when Carl had his 1991 reign of terror, and lastly when Jake was trying to take over Cory Publishing.  Iris even admitted after Mac's death that she felt concern over Rachel that she didn't understand.. but accepted.
 

However, Iris was still Iris even with the death of Mac.  She still was devoted and too wrapped up with him.. but that obsessive devotion was transferred to Cory Publishing.  As with all of her relationships/marriages in the 1970s.. her obsession with Macy and Cory Publishing caused the end of her relationship with Hank.  She missed their simple wedding because of Cory Publishing business.. and it caused him to break things off.

And also, her disapproval over Rachel/Carl was in character... but her shooting at Carl at their wedding ceremony was out of character.   Framing Carl for something that would cause Rachel to doubt he changed was more up her alley than shooting Carl.   

The ending I would have done to Iris's stint on the show would have been a big showdown between Rachel/Iris over the past.. and Iris again lamenting that Cory Publishing was given to Rachel.. that 'daddy' only cared about Rachel over her, etc.   And Rachel would have promised not to expose/turn Iris in for what she did if she left Bay City and was out of her life forever.

And we could have ended with Iris lamenting how she messed things up again and focused back on her life in NYC living the high life.

 

[j swift]

The writing credit for the retcon is mysterious

In 1978 Sylvie and Mac had scenes outside of Iris's presence, but there was no discussion of an affair.

Then (according to AWHP) SEPTEMBER 17 - 21, 1979 - Kirk learned that Sylvie served prison time for murdering Iris's biological father, and Iris was actually born in prison. Before fleeing Bay City in shame, Sylvie threatened to kill Kirk.

OCTOBER 29 - NOVEMBER 2, 1979 - Iris's dental records proved she had bitten Kirk before he died. But, Sylvie returned and claimed she was the one who bumped off Kirk.

NOVEMBER 12-16, 1979 - Sylvie's business partner supplied her with an alibi.  Before departing, Sylvie advised Liz and Jim to admit their attraction for each other.

So, it would seem odd that years later, Sylvie would tell Iris about an affair.

In 1988, it was never explicit that Iris tried to take over Cory because of the details of her conception, so it was not relevant to the story.

And, Harding Lemay's memoir implies a general satisfaction with his writing choices, so it defies logic that he would contradict a prior storyline.

Looking back, a lot happened in 1979, and I enjoy the interwoven Kirk and Janice plot, as Iris, Rachel, and Mac were torn apart at all ends, which is a perfect setup for Janice's plan.

Edited November 19, 2023 by j swift

[AbcNbc247]

It was Lemay who rewrote his own story and made Iris Mac’s daughter again 

The rewrite was a little half-assed though. 

I often wonder why he rewrote it as well. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by AbcNbc247

[j swift]

Yes, it was unnecessary for the 1988 takeover storyline, and Sylvie's motive for being a suspect in Kirk's murder makes less sense (if the guy she killed wasn't Iris's father).

And, in 1988, Sylvie would have no way of knowing if her dead husband or Mac fathered her baby, because there weren't DNA tests.

Edited November 19, 2023 by j swift

[AbcNbc247]

Plus, it really didn’t a lot of sense lol 

From what I remember from the reveal episode, Mac and Sylvie did have an affair, and Mac’s wife found out about it but paid Sylvie to say that Iris wasn’t his biological child. And the reason why Sylvie didn’t reveal this all in 1979 was because she had promised Mac’s wife that she wouldn’t and Sylvie was the type of person that kept her promises, or something like that.

Even though Mac’s wife had been dead for years at that point. 

[Contessa Donatella]

I wished at the time of the finale, and still really wish now, that Iris had been in a final scene. She could have been unexpected, gotten out & headed to Bay City, show up on Rachel's door. I know Goutman wanted Beverlee & she's so divine, who wouldn't, but, once he couldn't have her, he should have dropped back to punt & brought on Carmen! 

[j swift]

Sylvie didn't value discretion so much that it inhibited her from nosing into Dennis and Jim's love lives.

Furthermore, it assumes that either Mac's wife adopted a baby and didn't tell Mac about the parents, or Mac and his wife knowingly adopted Sylvie's baby, but somehow Mac didn't think he was the father?  Neither option make sense (this is fun!)

Edited November 19, 2023 by j swift

[Mona Kane Croft]

Yes, you are correct.  Interestingly, Lemay was very good at writing plots he said he didn't enjoy writing. He was also very good at writing for characters he didn't particularly enjoy.  For example, he said he didn't enjoy writing for Jacquie Courtney's Alice, but he wrote amazing stuff for Alice -- Emmy worthy material, actually.  Also Lemay implied in his book that he didn't know how to write for middle-class characters, but he wrote great material for nearly every member of the extended Matthews family, while they were on the show.  

That's one of the reasons I believe Lemay should have been forced, coerced, or strongly encouraged by Paul Rauch to keep Virginia Dwyer, Jacquie Courtney, Ariana Muenker,  Michael Ryan, and George Reinholt on the canvas.  

To some degree, Lemay was not a good estimator of his own talent.