3 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

 

It was like on TGL in the 1980s, when in quick succession (or so it felt), viewers had to watch Bill Bauer and Hillary Bauer getting murdered, Mike Bauer and Hope Bauer getting shipped out of town, Bert Bauer disappearing (when the actress became ill), and Ed Bauer parading around with a new face. It was painful.

"Painful" is putting it mildly  That was horrific to watch. Even more horrid was the fact that it happened to the Matthews family beginning in 1982 (some might say even earlier), when Pat and Alice were written out (the latter understandably) and Jim died. I really thought that they were trying to build up the Matthews family again in 1989 when they brought Russ back and introduced Olivia. I even thought that they were going to start a storyline where Josie would eventually be revealed to be the daughter of Russ. Sadly, that did not happen.

2 hours ago, teplin said:

Except, of course, for the completely out-of-character Gwen Frame. It was as if Swajeski was writing Opal Gardner rather than the sophisticated architect Gwen had been in her initial Bay City run.

 

Yeah, I've read how even Dorothy Lyman herself didn't recognize her own character when she returned for the 25th anniversary episodes; and watching those scenes, it does seem as if she's channeling "Naopal" more than anyone else.

Edited April 19, 20178 yr by Khan

4 hours ago, teplin said:

 

Except, of course, for the completely out-of-character Gwen Frame. It was as if Swajeski was writing Opal Gardner rather than the sophisticated architect Gwen had been in her initial Bay City run. 

 

Courtney and Wyndham also had a brief but very nice scene at Mac's funeral. There was so much history between them that every interaction was charged. But I guess that escaped new viewers, and that's who really mattered to TPTB.

 

 

 

Yes, the inexplicable way they wrote Gwen during the 25th anniversary celebration was definitely a weak point, but with so many former cast members returning, I knew there would be some missteps.

2 hours ago, zanereed said:

"Painful" is putting it mildly  That was horrific to watch. Even more horrid was the fact that it happened to the Matthews family beginning in 1982 (some might say even earlier), when Pat and Alice were written out (the latter understandably) and Jim died. I really thought that they were trying to build up the Matthews family again in 1989 when they brought Russ back and introduced Olivia. I even thought that they were going to start a storyline where Josie would eventually be revealed to be the daughter of Russ. Sadly, that did not happen.

 

The Matthews family took its first major blows back in 1975, when Rauch and Lemay axed Jacqueline Courtney, Virginia Dwyer, and George Reinholt. With weak actors in both the roles of Russ and Alice, it was difficult for me to care much about those characters after that, and then of course, writing out Pat and killing off Jim really crippled the show.

 

Executives come and go over the years, and tend not to understand the importance of long-running characters, but viewers are firecely attached to them.

25 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Yes, the inexplicable way they wrote Gwen during the 25th anniversary celebration was definitely a weak point, but with so many former cast members returning, I knew there would be some missteps.

 

The Matthews family took its first major blows back in 1975, when Rauch and Lemay axed Jacqueline Courtney, Virginia Dwyer, and George Reinholt. With weak actors in both the roles of Russ and Alice, it was difficult for me to care much about those characters after that, and then of course, writing out Pat and killing off Jim really crippled the show.

 

Executives come and go over the years, and tend not to understand the importance of long-running characters, but viewers are firecely attached to them.

It always seemed that Gwen was a last minute addition in that story. I thought I read that the original plan was to have Willis appear but when that fell through, they substituted Gwen for Willis.

2 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

It always seemed that Gwen was a last minute addition in that story. I thought I read that the original plan was to have Willis appear but when that fell through, they substituted Gwen for Willis.

 

That's what I have heard too, and those scenes would have made more sense had they been played by Willis.

58 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

killing off Jim really crippled the show.

 

Well, in that case, the actor (Hugh Marlowe) had passed away in real life. He had played the role for most of the show's run at that point, and I read in an old article that AW decided not to recast out of respect to his memory.

I do recall one scene during the 25th anniversary where Sharpene was telling Donna and Michael that she was as surprised at them about Gwen..that she isno acting like the Gwen she remembered....so I think even the writers knew this wasn't really Gwen...which adds more credibility to the rumor that she was a last minute addition.

1 hour ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Well, in that case, the actor (Hugh Marlowe) had passed away in real life. He had played the role for most of the show's run at that point, and I read in an old article that AW decided not to recast out of respect to his memory.

 

Hugh Marlowe was the fourth actor to play Jim Matthews, and while he often had trouble with his lines, most viewers probably do associate him with the role more than any other performer. Considering how important the character had been to the show (and could have been again), however, I would have preferred if the show had had Jim Matthews go on an extended business trip, and be recast later on. Had Marlowe been the one and only actor ever to play the role, I might had felt differently, but after seeing four different Jims, I knew the character could have survived being played by someone else.

52 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

Hugh Marlowe was the fourth actor to play Jim Matthews, and while he often had trouble with his lines, most viewers probably do associate him with the role more than any other performer. Considering how important the character had been to the show (and could have been again), however, I would have preferred if the show had had Jim Matthews go on an extended business trip, and be recast later on. Had Marlowe been the one and only actor ever to play the role, I might had felt differently, but after seeing four different Jims, I knew the character could have survived being played by someone else.

 

On another board, someone (who claimed to be a soap writer) said that Lemay had planned to pair Jim Matthews and Angie Perrini. Anyone else hear that rumor or know if it's true?

1 hour ago, robbwolff said:

 

On another board, someone (who claimed to be a soap writer) said that Lemay had planned to pair Jim Matthews and Angie Perrini. Anyone else hear that rumor or know if it's true?

 

Do you mean Angie's mother, Rose? She was played by Kathleen Widdoes, pre-ATWT.

13 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Do you mean Angie's mother, Rose? She was played by Kathleen Widdoes, pre-ATWT.

 

Nope. I meant Angie. This person (who never revealed their name) claimed that Harding Lemay had planned a romance between Jim and Angie, who worked for him. Frankly, I was incredulous.

Just now, robbwolff said:

 

Nope. I meant Angie. This person (who never revealed their name) claimed that Harding Lemay had planned a romance between Jim and Angie, who worked for him. Frankly, I was incredulous.

 

Really? Angie had to be younger than his daughters. I think the fairly conservative viewers of that time would have been against such a May/December romance like that. OTOH, a May/December romance between Rachel and Mac turned out well - so who knows?

3 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

 

Really? Angie had to be younger than his daughters. I think the fairly conservative viewers of that time would have been against such a May/December romance like that. OTOH, a May/December romance between Rachel and Mac turned out well - so who knows?

 

I was skeptical of this person's claims. She claimed to have inside information on lots of soaps but wouldn't reveal her identity. I believe she claimed that Lemay planned the storyline but it was rejected, much like Lemay's plans to have Michael Randolph come out as gay.

7 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

On another board, someone (who claimed to be a soap writer) said that Lemay had planned to pair Jim Matthews and Angie Perrini. Anyone else hear that rumor or know if it's true?

 

I have heard that rumor, but tend to categorize it under "fan fantasy" rather than reality. The internet is awash with folks who claim to be "insiders," and who post all sorts of rumors and gossip that cannot be verified...or often, cannot be believed.

 

Now granted, lonely older men do become attached to younger, attractive women who are kind to them. These men may even harbor unconscious desires that they realistically know could never come to pass. If Lemay had had thoughts about Jim growing attached to Angie, even becoming somewhat jealous when she become involved with more age-appropriate romantic interests, I could buy that. It would be an exploration of a older man's needs for human connection after his wife of several decades had died. But an actual romance? Okay, even that does happen in real life, but I it strains credulity that Lemay would see this as a viable storyline for Jim and Angie. (Although watching Aunt Liz freak out would have been amusing, LOL.)

37 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

(Although watching Aunt Liz freak out would have been amusing, LOL.)

 

That might have made it all worthwhile.