Y&R: Kay Alden or Maria Arena

[DaytimeFan]

I TOTALLY agree with you about the use of death. It should be used MUCH more sparingly than it's used in soaps.

But then...we are in total disagreement about Gloria/The Baldwin-Fishers...Joan Van Ark, in my view, was a lot more likable, a lot funnier, a character I sort of understood...I could root for her Gloria because she was trashy, dishonest but deep down, pretty superficial. She didn't play the victim, she was more a bumbler.

Chapman's Gloria is more calculating and stupid. She isn't daffy like Van Ark's Gloria, she's a downright stupid bitch. Self centered, horrible to everyone, uses her 'good son' (Michael) to save her 'f--ked up son' (Kevin)...Strangely, for all of Chapman's Gloria's wicked ways, she seems somehow weaker than Van Ark's Gloria.

Van Ark's Gloria was the kind of character who would have eventually reformed and charmed the Abbotts with her lunacy...Chapman's Gloria is a pariah. And she always will be, no matter whose daughter she is.

I really, really hope Gloria isn't Katherine's daughter...that would just be SO [!@#$%^&*] horrible, too awful for words. I just want Kay's daughter and Jill's mother to be DEAD and buried. Those are two non characters who SHOULD be DEAD and forgotten. That said, if they're going to 'go there' and resurrect Kay's daughter, Esther is my choice.

The Baldwin-Fisher's will never be a core family in my eyes. They are B list characters incapable of leading a storyline I've enjoyed.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Gloria is one of those cancer characters that shouldn't have lasted more than a year and a half.

Thankfully, she's been somewhat backburned in recent months. Maybe it's a sign of something bigger to come.

[Queen]

With Joan Van Ark as Gloria, I truly felt something for the character. She was a lovable rascal who came from the gutter and was determined not to die there. I adored her fighting spirit and most of all, her humor. She was trashy fun.

With Judith Chapman as Gloria, well....I can understand why Tom Fisher used to beat that a$$. He's the one I felt sorry for.

[brimike]

ROFLMAO!!!!!

:lol:

Not that I condone domestic abuse, but that's some funny sh!t right there. LOL!

[Y&RWorldTurner]

JVA was more tolerable, but that character itself is a VERY short term character that shouldn't have lasted very long. And I hated the attempts Jack Smith and LML made to make her become apart of the fabric of this show, when she's nothing but irredeemable trailer trash with flashy make-up.

[brimike]

And honestly, if she had gone to jail after the face cream incident (and I mean RIGHT after), that singular run would have been fine with me.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Gloria should've been more like GL's Nadine Cooper, but instead, the character got too lost in herself and went too far to ever be fully redeemed.

[DeeeDee]

:lol: :lol:

[LoyaltoAMC]

I'm really not that impressed with Maria Arena Bell. I know people hated LML, but honestly MAB is not writing anything that LML couldn't or wouldn't have written herself. And frankly, LML would have done it in a slicker, less amateurish way. For good or for bad, there was a slickness to LML's writing that MAB's convoluted, poorly paced stories can't match. The only reason the ratings went up for a bit was because of the kidnapping story. Now that that's over, the rating are back in the mid-3s, where MAB took them after she succeeded LML. IMO, it's just a boring show with convoluted stories. Alden far outweighs MAB (and LML for that matter), there's not even any contest. Whatever her faults, Alden is a smart cookie who wrote a smart show when she succeeded Bill Bell. Yes, there were some clunkers (as there were under Bill Bell), but the show was well written and paced. I thought the show was nirvana during that brief period Kay was writing with LML and Jack Smith. The show had the best of both worlds: Alden/Smith's knowledge of how to write a Bell soap and LML's more polished prime time skills. The show definitely went south when LML was writing alone, but that's for a whole other topic. I know that Alden is on staff at B&B, which I find to be a laughable show in oh so many ways. Not sure how much she or Brad Bell is responsible for that.

I do wish that Frons had picked her to HW AMC when he had the chance. She seemed to really get the show and its characters. Would love to see what she would've done there over B&E flat writing. From what I've been reading lately, it wasn't so much Frons who kept Alden from the AMC HW job but the result of some weird conspiracy/power play between JHC and her BFF Babs Bloom. Whatever the case, I think she would've been a good fit for AMC.

[DeeeDee]

Latham was horrible.

Higley level horrible.

[y&r_fan]

When did they work together?

[y&r_fan]

Co-signs and hides.

[LoyaltoAMC]

IMO there's no comparison. LML is essentially a seasoned prime time writer who was brought onto Y&R to modernize the show and give it a more contemporary feel. That was CBS's and/or Sony's personal agenda, not LML's. Yes, some of her attempts to give the show a more polished, prime time feel bombed, but that was the result of her style of writing and experience clashing with daytime writing, which is a very different animal. I thought the show was for the most part interesting, if not always cohesive, under LML. Like I said, when she was writing the show alone, things began to fall apart. When she had daytime vets Alden and Smith there when she first joined, I thought the show was terrific. I have no idea what kind of power plays between LML, Alden and Smith were going on behind the scenes that led to Alden and Smith being ousted (I can imagine it wasn't pretty), but whatever it was, didn't adversely affect the show. To compare a respected writer like LML, whatever her faults, to Higley, is kind of laughable. Higley is the very definition of a hack writer whose stories are all surface and riddled with the hoariest daytime cliches. There's absolutely no depth or humanity to Higley's writing. She's right down there with Leah Laiman, who IMO, is the worst HW to ever hold that position no matter where she's been.

[MarkH]

Exactly!

[DeeeDee]

With a string of prime time failures littering her resume.

All her stuff bombed.

There was nothing "polished" or "prime time" about her writing.

It was emotionally hollow, agenda fueled, plot driven pond scum.

Y&R would've been ruined beyond repair had it not been for the majority of it's unsung cast.

LML gave them rancid crap to play & the majority of them did their best to make it work.

Had the cast not been strong Y&R would've tanked even faster than it did in 07.

The show was awful then too.

Smith was pretty bad but LML was just another level of awful.

Not in the least.

And respected?

The same LML who pushed veteran talent in front of & behind the scenes out?

The same LML who ushered hordes of talentless "actors" & behind the scenes crew in?

The same LML who alienated a loyal audience in record time with her plot driven drivel?

The same LML who warped character after character to suit her inane "stories"?

The same LML who eliminated almost every core family except her pets?

Daytime's had bad writers but NEVER was there such an immediate visceral response like there was with LML.

That broad & her "seasoned prime time success" can stay right in the unemployment line.