The Politics Thread

[Vee]

Whoa:

 

 

[DRW50]

 

I think if someone is going to be outed as a neo-Nazi it's less likely to come from "what does this tattoo look like" and more from real efforts to look into it, as the threads just end up with people saying "How awful!" and arguing over when an iron cross is or is not appropriate. Oh and a lot of people telling Ron Perlman how much they love him. 

 

I think that people who focus so much on Nazi Nazi Nazi above all else are just turning people away from the real issue because many people automatically tune out that word now. I think the same happens when people mention the Japanese internment camps and act like it's all just the same. People would be better off focusing attention on what is happening now rather than what feels like a self-absorbed history course to show everyone how shocked and upset they are.

 

That's pretty heavy. I had wondered why he was still staying around...

[Vee]

The piece (as per usual with Politico) is a bit too sympathetic to both him and Nielsen, but at least it gives insane insights like that.

Meanwhile, in The Hottest Take:

 

 

 

 

 

Except I think it is the same. I know George Takei does, and he was there.

 

I am Jewish on my father's side, and I honestly never thought I'd see what we're seeing now in my own lifetime. It was inconceivable to me outside the lunatic fringe when I was a child. I'm glad my grandparents, who came up in the Depression and WWII, didn't live to see this - they lost a whole branch of the family in the Holocaust. I think - and my parents think - that what we're seeing with the alt right and the detention is very close to the slow rise of the Nazis and the internment camps. Too close. I think we can't say that enough. To dismiss it is to shield it and give it room to grow and build.

 

Whatever the nuances and the degrees of the crises, the real issues, above all, are the same - hate, fear, bigotry and taking the civil rights of the different, the brown, the other.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Vee

[Wendy]

F-u-c-k every last one of these Trump bottom feeders. Karma is a bitch and I can't WAIT for it to come calling.

 

And this could backfire in a big way in the future. Some of these children are old enough to remember what is happening. And that, sadly, can rightfully (IMO!) manifest in anger towards the country. Then we won't need to worry about terrorist behavior from outside. Because that hatred is being promoted and encouraged within our own borders.

 

The worst thing is, I really wouldn't blame any of these kids for that hatred. This will be Trump's real legacy. Which is fitting, because he is a POS that hates everyone not white, male, and wealthy, too. And hates leaders of free nations while loving dictators. Let's keep that scary little nugget in mind, too.

[Juliajms]

You are a good person and you need to protect your heart and mind so you can fight another day. And yes, it's awful to think of the Native children and the children of slaves who were taken. We can't change the past, but these soulless bastards aren't going to win this time. I know they won't because even that cowardly SOB Ben Sasse was forced to address the child prison camps today.

[ReddFoxx]

The election is 140 days away. It's ok to feel angry or upset, but keep your eye on the prize and do not forget to push. Walk precincts, phone bank, donate and if none of that appeals to you stuff envelopes or send out postcards. Even if you are in a state or district that won't flip get in contact with campaigns to see what you can do to help because that House and Senate popular vote is going to be critical for symbolic reasons. The fringe needs to know that they do not own this country.

[DRW50]

 

I think what we're seeing is probably what has been going on in one form or another for a number of years - Trump is just too crass and too stupid to hide it properly, and he's also made it worse because he makes everything worse. So for that reason I'm not as shocked as I wish I could be. The reason I don't like the comparisons to the past is because I think it simultaneously minimizes what many went through (in the case of the internment camps, the media and the entirety of government as well as the average citizen fully supported these camps, and in many cases supported even more extreme measures - there was pretty much no one trying to help the way we are seeing people try to help now), and partly because I think it runs the risk of turning into some kind of atrocity Olympics and makes people shut down mentally. I think that there's a way to try to fight these groups and these people in different terms, especially since I've noticed many of them have become more and more proud of the term Nazi anyway. I don't mean to try to downplay what's going on now, because it's very dangerous, and I think it's only going to get even worse. I just try to keep it within its own sphere of history because I worry it can't be examined or dealt with otherwise.

 

The real concern I have is less about immigrants hating America because of Trump (which, intentionally or not, I think plays into the hands of those who want to ship them all out and lock all the doors and windows) and more about who is going to help these people when there is no more President Trump. The system has failed immigrants, it has exploited them, and helped push up the rise in gangs, lawlessness, violence, alongside so many illegal immigrants being used as indentured servants. Before all of this blew up the most talk you'd hear about Trump's policies is that it was now less easy to have what amounted to dogs going around doing as they're told by their employers. Kelly Obsorne sneering "Who's going to clean your toilets, Donald Trump?" from a few years ago pretty much said it all. So do all the reports about how this crop or that factory is now suffering because we can no longer exploit illegal immigrants while granting them no rights or citizenship. Even the Dreamer debate was framed on those terms - people who have no rights and were not going to get any rights.

 

Until we address the citizenship question, this is going to go on and on, even if people can feel better about themselves because illegal immigrants and refugees are now treated like cattle as a family instead of being treated like cattle while forcibly separated.

[Juliajms]

Yes. One of my friends from Israel was telling me that she thinks it's demeaning to Holocaust victims to compare.  No!!  if anything is demeaning it's not taking history's lessons into account  What kind of person can take a child from a parent's arms? Hardened people. People who are capable of anything. It's Gestapo tactics and mentality.  We have to fight this with everything we have or it will go farther.  Tell me Trump doesn't have it in him.

Absolutely I could never go door to door (too introverted), but I will drive people to the polls come November.

[Wendy]

I get what you're saying about the exploitation of immigrants, @DRW50, but as disheartening and unfair as it is, the sad truth is, immigrants usually are the people who accept the menial tasks of cleaning toilets, of picking crops, and now some farmers are bemoaning the fact that there aren't enough people willing to harvest those crops, which ties into the economy/tariffs, etc.

 

Americans whose lives didn't turn out as they'd hoped will never blame their own choices: The immigrant is the convenient punching bag. If the immigrants didn't take American jobs, I'd be doing X, Y, Z! They can't accept that those immigrants do the jobs no Americans want. If they do, where are they?

 

No, what these entitled Trump-loving Americans want is the jobs with the big bucks without having to work for it, without education, without relocating, etc. And deep down, they know this, so they lash out. Just as Trump promises coal miners that coal is making a comeback when evidence says otherwise. These folks don't want to change, so they play the victim.

 

Alas, many Americans have gotten that down to a science. They deserve X, Y, Z and the immigrants do not. It's black and white in their minds, and there is no changing it ever.

[DRW50]

 

I agree, but I think this also creates a mentality where people are likely to resent and hate America and become lawless, become dangerous. That's why I hope this whole ugly horror will lead to some type of real change, unlikely as it is, because I have to question anyone who only cares about children treated so terribly in these specific circumstances but doesn't care about them the rest of the time. If the policy goes away tomorrow (and I hope it does), the failures and the pain are still there to be exploited and harvested, as they have been for decades. 

[Vee]

I have been door to door before (even got bitten by a dog - invisible fence my aśs!) and I may go again. My 70+ mother has been tireless since the day after the election and is now running her local League of Women Voters and working with half a dozen local groups. She puts me to shame, so I have to do more.

[Juliajms]

This is one good place to donate.

[DramatistDreamer]

[DRW50]

And this is just the beginning.

[dragonflies]