The Politics Thread

[DRW50]

 

Unfortunately many of these Congresspeople will just be replaced by more extreme versions of the GOP, not Democrats. 

 

Not that I'm saying I hope these people stay either. They're useless. But I don't think we'll be getting anything better anyway.

[Khan]

 

If I heard it once from a white woman during the campaign, I heard it one hundred times: "I'm not going to vote for Hillary JUST because she's a woman."  Okay.  Well, then, how about voting for Hillary (or Jill, or Gary) because Trump has a record of being sexist and misogynistic?  That would be a deal breaker for most enlightened women out there, right?

 

The sad fact is that the feminist movement of the late '60's and early '70's had absolutely nothing to do with WOC; and that's primarily because (to put it simply) WOC had to go out and work, because they had no choice.  And they had to put up with menial jobs, shitty pay and gross mistreatment by their male, white employers, because no one was out there for marching for THEM the way they were for white women.

 

Ironically, though, I think most African-American women hold more traditional values than even most white women.  Because they were largely raised by Judeo-Christian values, they truly believe, for example, that the husband IS the head of the household; that marriage IS defined by one man and one woman; that a woman is not to serve as the head of the church; that things like premarital sex and abortion are to be avoided, etc.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Khan

[DramatistDreamer]

 

That was often the case but I think it's mainly on a generational level. The women of my generation are more likely to be college educated and though many want to be married, we are unwilling to be put in a position that is subjugated to a mate. Of course. some of us were raised attending church but didn't stay going as adults, many of us only attend sporadically, possibly, not being satisfied with the biblical scholarship.

 

My family being immigrants, had a situation that is considered atypical to begin with.

My mother was the pioneer...she led and her husband followed her to the U.S.

She had a job (not a great one, being an immigrant she got offered a sh*t job that Americans didn't want to do) which provided a visa and residency and in turn, she filed for her husband to join her in a couple years.

I don't believe my mother was ever able to have the expectation of anyone taking care of her, although it probably would've been a relief to her.

 

In terms of the lack of solidarity, it reminds me of a documentary I watched last year on Netflix on the feminist movement, particularly how the ERA bombed due to Phyllis Schlafly's group, who ultimately sabotaged the efforts for the ERA passage. 

2016 election seemed to be history repeating itself. Only in this case, I think my generation and the young WOC coming into full adulthood, will in future,  be less inclined to try to reach out and join ranks under the general banner of feminism, given the history of WOC getting burned in the end.

Edited October 20, 2017 by DramatistDreamer

[sivad40]

Many members from Lipstick Alley a predominantly black women website, has often said feminism was never for WOC, and that some white women were complicit when it came to white patriarchy and racism. 

[DramatistDreamer]

 

I know at one time there was a push by some WOC like bell hooks to embrace "Womanism" which was seen as different from "Feminism", which many Black women, particular felt excluded from historically, for some of the reasons that @Khan described.

Black women had always had to work since being brought to this country as slaves, and often had to do the work equal to the men (ability/equal access to work had always been a major guiding principle in the feminist manifesto).

 

I'm not sure that the Womanist movement ever truly got off the ground and some Black women sought to embrace a more fluid definition of feminism, one that they had fashioned for themselves, which has been viewed as somewhat controversial by some feminists, who see feminism as being guided by a set of specific principles and strictures.

 

In any case, this past election has brought a great many divides into sharp relief and this is one of them.

[marceline]

I'll be honest, I don't know what to make of Kelly's behavior. At first I just thought that he was one in a long line of white men who just let Trump neuter them (McConnell, Sessions, Ryan, Cruz, Cohn, Price, Rubio, etc...) but the more conversation I see from people with experience dealing with narcissists I'm not sure. The only way to manage them is to affirm their worldview. Just like the governor of Puerto Rico has had to flatter Donald just to get even the most basic help. I hope that one day we will learn that what Kelly did was the equivalent of throwing himself on a grenade because the alternative, that he went to bat for the man who used his child's death as a political football is unthinkable and shows just how pervasive and toxic white supremacy and toxic masculinity is even to the people who benefit from it.

 

.

Yep. Pure exhaustion. Sometimes I try to take a day or two to stay away from the news just for my own sanity. My blood pressure has been stuck at 20 points higher since the election.

[Khan]

 

Agreed.  The election was an eye-opener, not just for WOC (who realized that white women will NEVER have their backs), but for progressively minded white women as well.  (As I heard at least one commentator say, yes, white women DO hate each other, and the election proved it.)

Edited October 20, 2017 by Khan

[marceline]

 

This election has forever changed how I see so-called "allies" on the left and not just the white ones. I've seen too much discussion from the Colin Kaepernicks of the world who would rather protest than vote. It's a big part of the reason I finally just gave up on BLM.

[Khan]

 

What were the other parts?  (If you don't mind my asking?  I'm just being curious.)

[JaneAusten]

I want someone to explain to me when this man supposedly ran for Working Class, not cutting Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security(which is not going broke), giving the middle class tax cuts, everything HE is supporting is the same failed economic policy the GOP has been peddling = failed Reaganonmics. Even Reagan was not dumb enough to cut social security, but Trump doesn't even know or care that he's endorsing the opposite of what he campaigned on.

 

And please let's stop talking about this last election being driven on economic anxiety when these people don't care these things are happening which will just increase income inequality. This new budget is horrific and cuts 1 trillion dollars from Medicaid and Medicare.

 

I have also come to the conclusion Paul Ryan is a sociopath and is lying outright after his appearance on one of the news shows this morning about the tax plan and NO ONE CHALLENGED HIM.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/20/senate-passes-budget-plan-what-that-means-for-tax-cuts/780610001/

[JaneAusten]

This is one reason I sometimes roll my eyes when people say putting women in positions of power might change things. I do believe women and PoC have a much larger hurdle to overcome to get there. You can't be mediocre and get rewarded for the most part or fail as white men do time and time again and move up the ladder. Women are also far better at delegation, listening, and workload balance.  But I also believe we can be worse to work for than men. I have had 2 female bosses over my career. 1 probably the best person I have ever worked for, 1 the worst. And the 1 who was worse was clearly biased in how she judged women and PoC versus white men and was a horrid delegator

 

And there is a lot of jealousy among white women, particularly when it comes to how men perceive us. Much more than I believe you will ever see within any other demographic group.

[DramatistDreamer]

Will the Benghazi screamers actually do a thorough and serious investigation into what happened to these soldiers in Niger and why Mr. Johnson was left, lingering between life and death for two days in the desert?

[Khan]

 

The first time I made THAT observation was when I was still in high school and noticed how cliquish the white girls were in comparison to everyone else.  Now, the Black girls (and other girls) kept to themselves as well -- and I'm not saying they were incapable of talking smack behind each other's backs.  But the TRUE "mean girls," the ones who set out to make the other groups' lives miserable, were all white.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Khan

[Khan]

 

If it ain't about Obamuslim or Crooked Hillary, they don't give a [!@#$%^&*].

[Wendy]

 

Bwahahahaha, you made a joke. The GOP Rulebook: If WE do it, it's fine!