OLTL: Has anyone else given up watching this show?

[KAnder5695]

And individuals enjoying a show doesn't make it successful either, THAT is my point. Ratings is what is used to judge success whether individuals chose to agree with it or not. If tomorrow OLTL jumps up to 2.2, I would have to concede that while I am not enjoying the show, clearly many others are. Likewise, if ratings are low and I love the show, clearly many don't agree with my opinion that the show rocks. I do not dismiss the ratings, even if I don't personally agree with the data. Being dismissive of ratings is the last, desperate stance of a losing arguement.

[DrewH]

I can't speak for Toups, but I don't think he's dismissing the ratings. He knows that OLTL is at the bottom, but the thing is, he's enjoying the show right now and can look passed it. He's not letting the bad ratings affect that fact that he's being enterained right now.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Again, that's subjective though. We have apparently longtime OLTL fans like Jess and Kander who don't feel that way.

Carlivati might not be a "recycled hack," but he's shown that he can recycle certain stories from OLTL's past years and drag them out too long, I wouldn't exactly call that a masterful feat. 1968 and Mendorra were atrociously plotted and executed, but that's my opinion, and I see that many others have agreed with it.

He has a his flaws as a writer, like everyone else does, yet those haven't been addressed yet, until recently. Carlivati's honeymoon period is over, and while he may still be a good writer, I feel many are more aware of his flaws now.

What sense does it make to compare a writer who hadn't been on the job a year yet to someone like Douglas Marland, who had a proven trackrecord at several shows?

It's easy for a new writer to come in and change things, no one knew what long-term success Carlivati would have two months into his tenure, when Branco made that horrid comparison.

I think that was a classic case of the Carlivati hype, and how some soap fans are willing to cling to a little glimmer of hope way too soon.

Not to me, I watched GL back then, and while I can see the point Ewing was trying to make, it doesn't make sense to me to compare Carlivati, who had been on the job LESS THAN A YEAR to a Golden Era of another show, in that case GL.

[rhinohide]

LOL!Their own method to achieve what purpose? I didn't feel my lips pucker in the least (not attributable to Botox I assure you). In fact, I think my point is very similar to one you were trying to make. My personal enjoyment isn't a measure of whether the show is good or bad. Rating spikes or dips do not measure my personal enjoyment. I can't presume to claim that someone who is enjoying the show has bad taste or flawed reasoning or whatever it is that permits them to be entertained while I am not. It's simply not a question of who is right and who is wrong. I am enjoying Mad Men which was a big Emmy winner but hasn't set the ratings on fire. Too bad for all those people who aren't watching. Now please excuse me while I go check the mirror to see if my lips have been restored to their normal position. Perhaps I have permanently puckered lips and just never knew? Either way, neither you nor I have changed anyone's mind about what they are or are not enjoying, and ultimately personal enjoyment is what shapes personal opinions about whether Carlivati is a good writer or a bad writer.

[MarkH]

What is this business about "low ratings"? As I said yesterday, OLTL has held on to its ratings throughout this year. NO massive declines...in contrast to Days, Y&R, B&B and especially GL. Here is the graph again.

Yes, the ratings are low, but this year they ARE NOT FALLING (much) for Carlivati. They are falling LESS for Carlivati than for others. So, why would you use a ratings argument. The ratings argument DOES NOT HOLD when OLTL experienced LESS decline than almost any other soap. The ABC lineup is UNIQUELY stable during this year.

Amen...well put. "Devil that you know..." But in this case, RC is no devil. He HAS real skills.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

But people who've devoted much of their time to a show deserve to display their displeasure, regardless if many happen to enjoy the show. I see nothing wrong with some fans demanding a better product, it might not be my opinion or the opinion of many, but as this thread clearly points out, differences in opinion is always going to be the norm.

Regardless of the ratings argument, I still think its safe to say Carlivati's job isn't as safe as you may believe. AMC and OLTL aren't GH, Carlivati doesn't have the job security that Guza has.

[Kstaff]

As someone who has stuck with Days the past few years despite all the backstage turmoil, i have to chuckle at all this. As creepy as Tess and the whole Todd/Marty thing is, it's intriguingly fascinating. At least Ron doesn't kowtow to the littlest fan grumbling, like on Days, whose stories get tossed and turned like a storm every time a fanbase gets pissed off. Considering the backstage turmoil on Days, I l like it when a soap can hang in there and weather out the ups and downs that ANY show has without dumping a writer or EP for the next flavor of the month. What, you want OLTL to resort to having actors rewrite the scripts? I'm assuming the actors don't feel that need with Ron. If they got rid of him, who knows WHO they'll end up with?

[MarkH]

Oh, I totally agree on this point. Now that Pratt is being promoted to the hills...in part for his GH job...I suspect he'll be as secure as he wants to be at AMC too.

As a "junior HW", I do agree that Mr. Carlivati is least secure. Also, ALL of these folks are in jeopardy because of the basic ratings (not because Carlivati is making them decline, but because they started low and haven't gone up).

But I personally would still put RC in the top half of current headwriters...maybe even in the top 1/4.

[Toups]

Great post!

I don't think you're understanding what I'm trying to say. LOL I'm trying to say that you shouldn't let what other people are thinking, or if the show has good/bad ratings, affect you being entertained by the show or not. You can only control your own feelings. You can't make other people feel the same way as you, so in the end, it only matters if YOU are being entertained.

Yeah, but being successful or not is subjective. If I'm liking a show, the writer is doing a good job.

Thank you.

Another great post, rhinohide!

[EricMontreal22]

Now if this was a story done the AGnes Nixon way--then what you say would be true for a soap too. Only a soap can you even try to fully show the complex emotions, causes, etc of every member involve din the abuse *and* spend time showing how someone recovers from it. But I don't trust that this is going to happen here. It's almost like a JER Passions style show (we had brothers raping sisters on Passions and cuz it's so camp and so unrealistic there was no real resolution or dealing with the effects--but on OLTL I think you have to pay attention to that)

[EricMontreal22]

I don't think this is quite right. I see a shirtless guy on ATWT nearly everytime I turn it on (on yesterday's Planet Soap about male nudity they featured Austin Peck who said he thought this was the soap with the most shirtless guys)--although that' sonly a few times a week. And DAYS still does the JER thing of havign ANY ridiculous excuse to have a guy with no shirt--something OLTL hasn't quite done yet (ie if it was days, the scenes between Marko and Cole talkign in their basketball uniforms today woulda been in the locker room with towels ).

I cannot believe I'm arguing amount of shirtlessness on soaps, on here

E

[EricMontreal22]

I dunno I don't find that too diff than other current soaps (and the JER ones were much more blatant)--and you'd be surprised at how many ladies like things like that but OK I get your point. Now if only they'd not wax EVERY SINGLE CHEST (with the sometime exception of Brody who seems to just clip very close) on the show. a bit of hair is coming back in--and already has int he gay scene for the most part but soaps still haven't really reflectged that this is so off topic (Doesnt' Trevor St John have a stipulation that he doesn't have to take off his shirt?)

[EricMontreal22]

Campa nd humour are quite diff to me although Agnes Nixon has always used a sligthly campy sense of humour--her classic AMC being an example. This is a far ways from the camp of Mendoraa and Rauch in the late 80s on OLTL--or of Passions though. But I think humour is animportant part of OLTL and I'd be sad to see it gone--it's not a Bell soap.

[EricMontreal22]

Yeah I think he deserves more time--for sure.

This was a joke though right? Cuz gordon died in 1981 (which is why his associate Sam Hall took over--I'm nto sur ei fhe's still alive)--but if Gordon was still alive and capable I'd have him replace Ron in a HEARTbeat

[dc11786]

Gordon Rayfield is alive. Eric, you're thinking of Gordon Russell. Rayfield headwrote with Anna Theresa Cascio at All My Children before Megan McTavish's most recent stint. The pairing wasn't well liked, but I liked them. THey were the only writers who could get me to watch AMC on a regular basis.