ALL: Are you a Nixon or a Bell??

[SteveFrame]

Tony did sort of force himself on Liz but not so much. She could only get a divorce from Tony if she gave him a child. She had been married to Don when Tony suddenly returned to town and announced they were still married. Stefano wanted a child and he would not allow Tony to divorce Liz. Tony made a deal with Liz that she would get her divorce if she gave him a child. Liz had already fallen for Neil. She did reluctantly sleep with Tony but only after sleeping with Neil.

I forgot about Maggie being raped.

*******************************************************

Eric up until about 1984 the ABC soaps were most popular with school age kids. Before 1981 school kids who watched soaps didn't anyone they watched soaps. When Luke raped Laura in 1979 it suddenly became cool to watch soaps. Many young girls that I went to school with even looked at rape very romantically then. Through 1980 I can remember seeing news reports where young girls would yell out to Tony Geary at events to rape them.

But everyone in high school back then did watch the ABC soaps esp. GH.

Then come 1983/1984 and Bo & Hope and suddenly Days was the show to watch among the kids. GH and ABC was still popular but not as popular as they were.

Around here many school age kids had it good because we could get out of school and catch the last 30 minutes of GH and then turn it over to NBC and watch Days. For some reason our affiliate at the time moved Days to 4:00 ET / 3:00 CST and all the school age kids watched it.

[EricMontreal22]

"Eric up until about 1984 the ABC soaps were most popular with school age kids. Before 1981 school kids who watched soaps didn't anyone they watched soaps. When Luke raped Laura in 1979 it suddenly became cool to watch soaps"

In All Her Children they give a lot of stats about AMC taking over campuses and even high schools (two catholic girls schools are mentioned) in 1974...

[SteveFrame]

Maybe in some more urban areas that was so but here in small town Tennessee before 79 if you let others know you watched soaps - you better watch out for wedgieville or swirlies in the bathroom. LOL

That put you in definte nerdsville USA.

[EricMontreal22]

With girls?

[SteveFrame]

Yes even with girls too. It was just not a cool thing to watch soaps. Or listen to country music either. You kept both things hidden.

[kalbir]

In my school it wasn't a cool thing to watch game shows. I was just as big a fan of most of CBS's game shows (The Price is Right, $25,000 Pyramid, Card Sharks, Family Feud) as I was of the CBS daytime dramas, so that made me a double target for getting laughed at and made fun of.

[cct]

The "generational" talk to me is so interesting, and I can see where it's all coming from. My mother's side of the family watched ABC soaps, and my father's side of the family watched CBS soaps. So, to me, I've never really thought about it being generational in that way until now.

I've always had a theory that soaps are passed down from generation to generation, not that one generation watches one kind while the other watches the other. My grandmothers had soaps playing all day the whole time I grew up. I happened to be walking through the living room of my maternal grandmother one day when Opal on AMC caught my eye, and the tie grew from there. Yet, I always stayed abreast of CBS soaps through my other grandmother. I can remember my mother screaming at the television for Luke to "push the button" for the Ice Princess. And my wife was one of those 80s Days watchers (no longer watches), so she would occasionally bring me up to speed on that.

So, I'd be very interested to see from others whether they feel there was a generational thing in the way you all are laying it out here about whether you were a Nixon or Bell or whether a particular soap was passed on to you by an older family member. Generational Soap Theory or CCTs Tradition Theory?

Hey, if Marceline can have a theory, I can have one too.

[SteveFrame]

I agree with you that soaps are a generational thing. I have said so often.

Whether they are or are not a generational thing didn't factor into my thinking on the being ridiculed. It didn't matter what soaps you watched you were made fun of. At the same time even after they got okay to watch at school there were still certain ones that were looked on as more cool to watch than others.

Even though my habits were passed down from my parents and grandparents, my school buddies influenced me a lot too and did others.

Many who did not watch soaps at all were influenced to watch in 1979 and 1980 by the other school kids who were talking about the ABC soaps all the time and vice versa with Days in 1984 when the Salem Strangler stroy was going on.

I remember in 1983 I was in my Senior Year in High School and a group of us had 1st period study hall. There were many who did not watch Days of Our Lives. There were several of us Seniors who didn't get lucky enough to have Study Hall last period (where at our school you got to leave if you did). But anyway our teachers were nice enough that they allowed us to go out to the abandoned shop class where we could talk and do whatever we wanted during the study hall hour.

Many days were spent in talking about Days which was starting to get popular then. Many who did not watch started watching because of our talk. I was the only one in our group that had grown up watching Days. Most of them had come to it much much later. So I had to do a lot of filling in on history of some of the characters like Don & Marlena. They all of course hated Doug & Julie for interfering with Hope but I loved Doug & Julie because I knew their history.

So I think it is a mix of both theories. I know many college kids who got into AMC at college in the 70's where AMC had become popular mostly due to it's anti-Vietnam stances. It was the only TV show period that was that way on a consistent basis.

[Reddi]

I like both styles, but probably prefer Nixon's a bit.

I think a story well told is a story well told, and it can be either type. If done well and if the characters are interesting... I'll watch.

I do like humor, though.

I completely agree... the 'families' on the soaps become a 'family' to the family watching. I think one reason the soaps have declined in ratings so drastically (one reason among many) is because in an attempt to nab the desired 'young' demo they alienated grandmom and mom .... if grandmom and mom are not watching, neither are the younger viewers.

My own kids don't get to watch soaps unsupervised... some scenes they can't watch at all because they are not appropriate. But I usually record the shows and as long as it's not inappropriate for their age they like to watch... my ten year old son really wants JR and Babe to work out their marriage (kids are big on parents working things out). He sure can't see all the ways they "work on it" (LOL) but he knows who they are and wants them to win.

My two teen girls (one about to enter the desired demo .. turning 18 in November) love the family stories, with many generations. They ask me about the history of these folks, because they know I know.. and they LIKE that aspect. They hated the shows attempts at youth marketing, LOL (they stopped watching for a while due to that).

Soap viewing is not like other TV viewing.. it really is not only about the families on the show but about the families watching. Lost one member and you often lose the rest.

[Sylph]

But this has been discussed a long time ago, when Kay Alden posted a comment on MIT's Convergence Culture Dog: you can read about it — Legacy Characters and Rich History: How Soap Operas Must Capitalize on Their History (and Pay Attention to the Lessons of the WWE).

[Sylph]

Also As the World Turns in a Convergence Culture: A Summary, Part VII: Quick Fixes and Fan Proselytizers.

[cct]

But I'm a new member to the forums, Sylph, and as usually happens on message boards, topics repeat much to the consternation of longtime participants. If you could just link me to the old thread where this was discussed, as you thankfully linked us to the blog posts above, I'd be grateful.

Or we could discuss it again. That way, I can when someone brings it up two years from now.

[Sylph]

Oh, this wasn't a I'll-teach-you-a-lesson-in-not-repeating-the-topics! I think, note on think, there was a topic with a similar theme, but I could be wrong. And it was probably so long ago that it doesn't even exist any more (a server crashed a few times, if I'm not mistaken, and many, many valuable topics disappeared).

[cct]

Thanks again, Sylph, for posting the above and for taking my chiding post in the spirit intended. I don't know where you come up with these links...is there something you're googling?

Two things stuck out for me in this series: (1) the connection to wrestling (WHA?) and (2) the phrase "too narratively scarred."

Now I'm still not sure what I think about these things, but...well...they stuck out.

So, going back to the Marceline Theory, is nostalgia killing us? We are mad as hornets when we don't have enough Erica, Adam, Brooke, or Palmer on our screens and yet, these characters may be "too narratively scarred" to matter anymore.

[Sylph]

These blog posts are a part of a master thesis by Sam Ford. His mentor for the thesis was Kay Alden, among others. And they make a lot of sense, just that you need to give it some time and go through it all.