I will never, ever see Todd Manning as a romantic hero.

This is the MAIN reason I wish Roger was still playing Todd, cause he HATED the idea of Todd being a romantic hero, and I could see him fighting tooth and nail against this like he and Susan have in the past.

I never wanted Todd to be a romantic hero. He is much better as a gray character. The minute they turn him into a romantic hero, then he becomes as boring as John McBain and Antonio Vega.

Im really starting to hate RC....well more like dislike him very very much...I've never seen a writer go from gold to crap so quickly...disgusting!

I think the desireability of redeeming Todd is overrated. He's a much better and more interesting character as a borderline sociopath. The fans who want to see Todd redeemed are those who want him to be a romantic hero, and I hope that never happens and frankly, it wasn't the rape that drew me to that conclusion but the day he handed Blair a box of dirt and told her it was the cremated body of her son. He drives much more interesting stories as the disturbed twisted individual who shows brief flashes of humanity, and who people love and try to redeem, but never quite succeed.

Sylph's response to me was 100% on target. I had wrapped myself quite warmly in the illusion that Carlivati would not go "there" and he obviously is. Bang! My illusions exploded (or imploded?). I consider that a good thing, because that's a reaction I like to get from a soap. I want something unexpected. Honestly, I am more interested in this story from a strategic perspective than from a story perspective. The strategy fascinates me and I think it's incredibly ballsy. The question remains will the return justify the risk.

ITA. Todd is not a good guy and I would never be interested in seeing him be a good guy. Let John McBain and the Vega boys be the heros, while Todd just does the right thing now and then against his true inclinations. If nothing else the way Todd has treated Starr should prove that he is never going to be the altruistic do gooder. He's a bad person, which is what makes him a fun and interesting character.

As far as the promo goes, I think that kiss is incredibly hot. I could never get behind this couple, but TSJ and SH look amazing together.

I am shocked people are shocked they are going there.

Of course they are. I called it when ir ead Todd would have marty. This is what they have been building too. This moment. As everyone said its been odd to watch. its been wrong and its actually been hard to watch for many. making it compelling. now that they have got it to this point of the kidd it becomes a whats next. how far will they go? building to marty getting her memory back and feeling raped all over again.

just like i said months ago and most people called bullshit.

now, if they actually have them have sex.. thats another story. that might be too far for most.

i still dont care. because i cant stand marty. so...

I am shocked people are shocked they are going there.

Of course they are. I called it when ir ead Todd would have marty. This is what they have been building too. This moment. As everyone said its been odd to watch. its been wrong and its actually been hard to watch for many. making it compelling. now that they have got it to this point of the kidd it becomes a whats next. how far will they go? building to marty getting her memory back and feeling raped all over again.

just like i said months ago and most people called bullshit.

now, if they actually have them have sex.. thats another story. that might be too far for most.

i still dont care. because i cant stand marty. so...

LOL! You were right oh wise, sage one. I will never doubt you again.

But you and me? Can't stand Marty? We're like "this".

As far as the promo goes, I think that kiss is incredibly hot. I could never get behind this couple, but TSJ and SH look amazing together.

Ewwwwww! Julia! (Just kidding -- one person's turn-on is another's gag reflex -- I guess -- frankly I am not sure where I was going with that)

I really can't watch them. I hated when they even touched, but I don't think for me it's because of the rape so much. I hate it because Todd turns into this mealy-mouthed simpering sap around Marty. He gets that moony expression on his face and goes all sticky sweet. It makes me hate them both. This is the guy who never misses an opportunity to call the mother of his children and arguably his soulmate a bitch and a whore and a sl*t! Yet here he is treating Marty like some precious jewel he's placed up on a pedestal for his adoration alone. It simultaneously glorifies Marty, making her one of those characters I loathe with every fiber of my being, the paragon of virtue against which all other women on the show are villified by comparison, and it creeps me the hell out!

Furthermore, have I just missed it, or was Todd's original purpose for taking Marty never really explained? I think that is something else I am missing about this story. I get that Marty is Todd's white whale and through her he believes his "soul" can be cleansed and restored. I've seen the transition in his character as he continues to hold Marty "hostage". What I never understood is what he was hoping to accomplish by taking her in the first place. What was he planning to do with her? Just keep her from John and Cole to punish them? I think the story would have been more effective if he'd had some really horrible plot in mind and as he developed stronger feelings for her we could see that he aborted or revised his plans. Now I am just confused.

Edited September 2, 200817 yr by rhinohide

LOL! You were right oh wise, sage one. I will never doubt you again.

But you and me? Can't stand Marty? We're like "this".

Ha.

I you.

Marty=HATE. thats not even true. I just dont care about her at all. not even enough to hate her. i just change the channel when shes on. Even my love of Christina Chambers couldnt overpwoer how boring Marty is.

Ha.

I you.

Marty=HATE. thats not even true. I just dont care about her at all. not even enough to hate her. i just change the channel when shes on. Even my love of Christina Chambers couldnt overpwoer how boring Marty is.

I forgot about you and that CC love. <shaking head>

We'll just have to cling to our mutual apathy for Marty. Although mine is rapidly moving across the scale toward the loathing end of the spectrum. As I said above, this whole Marty as the perfect flawless jewel (well except for the brain damage -- some people consider that a flaw, but of course that makes her the perfect woman for Todd) is the set up for me to increasingly despise her.

I forgot about you and that CC love. <shaking head>

We'll just have to cling to our mutual apathy for Marty. Although mine is rapidly moving across the scale toward the loathing end of the spectrum. As I said above, this whole Marty as the perfect flawless jewel (well except for the brain damage -- some people consider that a flaw, but of course that makes her the perfect woman for Todd) is the set up for me to increasingly despise her.

Sunset Beach & Spyder Games. CC was flawless. She played the most perfect soap opera vixen on Spyder Games. Taylor. Ohh what a bitch she was. Sleeping with her employees 17-yearold boyfriend. Then moving onf rom him to his rich older brother whow as her ebst friends love. Then there was the murder of their father... Anyways it was made forever a never ending love when i emt her at the 07 Emmys and we discussed everything from spyder games to weather to drinks to coworkers. I lvoe that woman. As an actress and as a person.

And as for marty - if i actually watched this storyline id prob be right there with ya on the ahte train. but she bores me so much i dont watch.

Sunset Beach & Spyder Games. CC was flawless. She played the most perfect soap opera vixen on Spyder Games. Taylor. Ohh what a bitch she was. Sleeping with her employees 17-yearold boyfriend. Then moving onf rom him to his rich older brother whow as her ebst friends love. Then there was the murder of their father... Anyways it was made forever a never ending love when i emt her at the 07 Emmys and we discussed everything from spyder games to weather to drinks to coworkers. I lvoe that woman. As an actress and as a person.

And as for marty - if i actually watched this storyline id prob be right there with ya on the ahte train. but she bores me so much i dont watch.

I met Christina Chambers last year and she is a sweetheart. I thought she was like the worst recast ever, until they brought real Marty back and I didn't like her any better. LOL. Hey! I can own my mistakes.

I think the new Vanessa Montez looks so much like her.

Maybe its just me....but even if I were to put aside the fact that todd BRUTALLY raped Marty...I still don't see the chemistry between Todd & Marty, and even more over I have not been impressed by SH perfromances at all.

And as a Tangeline fan...I will BE EXTREMELY PISSED if they go for a relationship with Todd and his rape victim, than Todd and his best friend ugh.........

I remember hating Todd when the rape happened originally. I didn't like Marty then either but she didn't deserve what happened to her. I have grown to like Todd over the years because he has shown remorse and guilt over what happened and because he is such a multidimensional character. I don't ever want him to be all good or all bad. Let the boring Vega and McBain brothers be the heros of the show. I couldn't stand it when they tried to redeem Todd with the pairings of Rebecca, Tea, and the like. That was why the origninal Blair and Todd pairing was so good. They were the bad couple of Llandview. But now that they have made Blair the shiny good girl, I don't want her anywhere near Todd. I don't want Marty and Todd pairing either, even with Marty's amnesia. I do enjoy the psychological angst between the characters, but nothing physical, Please!

This story is fascinating! It has so many s/l possibilities! What if Marty is like Jason (GH), she doesn't ever get her memories back, and is a totally new person? Wouldn't it be ironic that she breaks up with Todd not because he lied about their past, but because he lied about not telling her she has a son! Plus, Blair is going to be pissed! I can see Blair telling Marty that Todd was her rapist, and Marty saying, "I don't remember that. That's another life. I love him." Blair would kill over and die of jealousy. You all may say it's sick, but it's a riveting s/l.

Ewwwwww! Julia! (Just kidding -- one person's turn-on is another's gag reflex -- I guess -- frankly I am not sure where I was going with that)

I'm not saying I think Todd and Marty are hot, which is why I pointed out that I won't support this couple. I said TSJ and SH are hot together. I would definitely want to see more if they were playing different characters. As it stands I'm ready for Marty to get her memory back.

Maybe its just me....but even if I were to put aside the fact that todd BRUTALLY raped Marty...I still don't see the chemistry between Todd & Marty, and even more over I have not been impressed by SH perfromances at all.

I don't see the chemistry either, and IMO TSJ is highly overrated........