Does Diversity mean you can be racist?

[miajere]

Because if they aren't married- they have nothing to lose. Writing for the 20something characters is like writing for teens- "what do they know?"

I think they are struggling to understand the motivations of twenty something peoples. The best 20something group from Y&R was with sharon, nick, matt clark, amy...it had romance, but it was young and impulsive. Y&R needs to get back to the impulsive passion in twenty somethings. These characters should be defining themselves (in the same way Adam is) fighiing family expectation, defining the careers, setting up their workplace and town dynamics the same way the vets have. Lily should have an enemy! whether that was going to be her new stepmother Karen, Phylis, daniel, Amber. She should have a core. What the hell does LIly want to do besides model(which she doens't even appear to like) and wait for cane to make all her dreams come true? She's looking like Lauren and even Lauren had some spice in her hayday. But this new s/l provides that and that's why this breakup is the best thing that could happen to CK.

Twenty something have flings with older people and get confused about their intentions. They make detrimental career choices that bite them in the ass years later. and eating disorder? that kind of issue begins in one's teens and then mainfests itself in their adulthood. Lily should be struggling with the idea of committment after her first divorce and be sabotaging every moment Cane tries to love her. At least Colleen had a fling with her professor(boring). But even she lost that spite she had with her father, and should be the biggest threat to JT and Victoria's marriage. Where's the impluse? INstead the play out these fully realized, wise beyond their years characters. Lily is a symptom of the entire twenty something crew on this show. At leat DS didn't make her scenes FF material.

[DeeeDee]

No it wasn't.

[applcin]

You know what's actually kind of sad and funny at the same time? Daytime soaps think they are being diverse and daring for creating interracial couples (even if a good number of them aren't given huge chunks of airtime and development). Um, hello? Remember a hugely popular primetime show in the 1970s called "The Jeffersons", with the very married Helen and Tom Willis? Yeah, their relationship was the target of many jokes on George's part (yet he was the one who came off sounding like an idiot) but they remained a major part of that show for its long run. If people were so offended, you sure couldn't tell by the show's ratings. Add to it the facts that the majority of the cast was African-American and that the show appealed to a broad audience. It wasn't just black people loving the show and the characters. The writing was there. The performances were there. Giving a crap about the quality was there.

As has been pointed out by others, if you put an interracial couple together on a soap and for various reasons (neglect to develop the story, the characters have no chemistry, the writing stinks, the acting sucks, etc.), if you, TPTB, either don't care enough to show them or write well for them, we're not going to care either. A young Jesse Hubbard befriending Jenny Gardner on AMC and being more intimate with her in some ways than her boyfriend wasn't a turnoff to viewers because they weren't just window dressing or caricatures or stereotypes....sure, some white characters were written, predictably, to react to Jesse in exactly that way but he wasn't written or portrayed that way.

That being said, the climate is different today, in both the real world and the soap world. Political correctness (or whatever you want to call it) remains at a hypocritical high. Likewise, the country's schizophrenic/contradictory ideas on what's moral or acceptable. In the soap world, apparently, taking the time these days to really develop a relationship (regardless of color) is not as interesting as shocking or "titillating" us with one-night stands, musical partners just to see who the heck fits together, etc. Considering that soaps are ongoing and have all the time in the world to let things develop, it's stupid that they don't take advantage of it. And by developing a longterm relationship, I don't mean let a couple have sex right off the bat, then have a series of obstacles, lies, other lovers, etc. keep them apart, then put them together, then rinse and repeat the cycle. I mean, develop them and make us care about them before they hit the sheets. And, in the meantime that you're doing that, they can also have their own lives, actually go to work, spend time with friends...do stuff that isn't always done solely for the purpose of discussing their love lives or running into the desired object of affection. So much now is tunnel vision. "If they don't talk about John and Jane, if John and Jane aren't going to run into each other and exchange meaningful glances or jealous glares, if this scene does not affect the "romance" at all, then it's extraneous, we don't need it." That what soaps feel like today.

I rambled twice today. My mouth is dry now.

[miajere]

I have to wonder about IR couples on soaps recently- are they really good- or are people just so shocked that tptb are going there, that they want to hold on for dear life? Everytime a single AA actress in on screen with a single male- message boards light up about their chemistry and how great a couple they would make. It's like the box that says,"do not open." People just can't wait to take a crack at it.

[DeeeDee]

Pretty much.

[R Sinclair]

In my own soap opera that I'm writing, it's intentionally diverse yet unspoken. There is no acknowledging the fact that certain couples are different ethnicities.

I have a black couple.

I have an hispanic couple -- and even then she's Puerto Rican and he's Dominican.

I have a samoan woman divorcing a black man (who has a white girlfriend) who have a bi-cultural son and the samoan woman's having an affair with an East Indian man.

I have a black woman being courted by a Puerto Rican man.

I have a Dominican man crushing on another man -- who happens to be black.

I have a black woman who has a Korean woman for an executive assistant and a samoan, muscular man as a secretary...

I think the best thing to do is simply not address skin color or ethnicity in stories. Write it for character regardless of the shade of their epidermis and you should be all right.

[EricMontreal22]

It can be hard--even in the late 80s on AMC Angie and Cliff were VERY unpopular (there's a Youtube ep with them right now actually)--and they were quicklys eperated. However Agnes Nixon fought to have another interacial romance, saying how part of the problem was both Angie and Cliff had been part of perhaps (with Greg and Jenny) the three most popular supercouples on AMC of the 80s... So to have them matched up made lots of people upset who didn't mind about the race. Very soon after she started the Tom/Livia pairing which I thought was handled naturally while addressing the race issue. By the time of Noah Julia a few years later it was hardly an issue (and that story was also groundbreaking for being the first interacial couple where the woman was lighter than the man--a further taboo--stupidly).

It still strikes me as surreal that less than 20 years ago there was a big taboo about interacial romances, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

As for AMC now it is amazing how quickly they've upped the diversity for a show that spent too much of the '00s being white bred, or having its "ethnic" characters come quickly and not work out or not be used--yet now it's quite diverse and as was pointed out, it was done subtly--it didn't feel forced. Is Randi black? She has those amazing blue eyes--mixed race? no matter (though it's too bad so far her eyes are the best feature of her talent)

[JackPeyton]

I agree.

Unless however skin color is a part of the story - but no soap in its current state is able to take that storyline on, IMHO. Now say Lily were to wonder why she only has dated white boys, that would actually be, IMHO, intersting. But a much stronger actress and a much stronger behind the scenes would be needed to pull it off, IMHO.

[EricMontreal22]

You're forgetting about Dena Higley's great work about racism and White Supremecists one or two years back...

:hides:

[phloeishot]

I think Y&R's audience is older and that's why a majority of their audience has a problem with these couples.

[marceline]

I think this is a BIG part of it. Network brass and sponsors will never be known for their progressive mindsets. I think there's something else to consider. Heather Tom, Peter Bergman and Michael Easton all mentioned in interviews being shocked at the degree of hate mail they got. Tom and Bergman got death threats. I believe Y&R even provided HT with extra security and Bergman has never shied away from expressing his disgust with the things he heard and read. I think he lost a lot of respect for the viewers and the genre with that experience. Of course that was a long time ago and times have changed, right? Which brings me to Michael Easton...

The man is a fave of mine but the fact that he was surprised points to a degree of naivete that I find...ahem..."cute." It also points to something I've found to be true in real life: a lot of people have no idea just how much hate is out there. You often see this when people date outside their race for the first time. They are genuinely surprised to see how people treat them, not just strangers but people they know and love.

I think what happens with many of these storylines is a form of sticker shock. And these shows with their failing ratings and dwindling audiences are simply too afraid to trust that a more global worldview will bring in more viewers than it costs them.

[EttaKit]

Now, Y&R has let Cane who had just been bitten by Amber's lies to pretend like he had sex with the freak of the week Chloe so they can now drop Lily from Cane life and create this uninteresting pairing of Cane and Chloe.

I don't think TPTB are going to destroy Lane. The setup is quite sloppy but I think this is all about soapy angst. Lane definitely has a strong following and I doubt they would not have lasted this long if race was truly an issue with this pair. If anything I think TPTB recognize Lane's long term potential. They can go the whole nine yards, have kids, break up, get back together, etc.

Lily will be fine. The bigger problem on Y&R for me is that Devon and Neil can only be paired with women of color. Until that stipulation is removed these characters will continue to be marginalized. Right now Devon can't even get a romance with a black girl. If they could give airtime to Paul and Maggie then there's no reason they couldn't do the same for Devon and Roxanne.

[rhinohide]

Whoa! Do you think that's the intent?

[DeeeDee]

Yep.

[miajere]

I think it's easy for them to provide for a character such as this, because they don't have to pair her with anyone romantically- if you never see her, or if when you do she's not sexy. Look at TS on OLTL, it's a shame they've marginalized her like this. She's stunning, and yet the only man she's had interest with was Vincent. I imagine her s/l wouldn't be an issue if she were of mixed ethnicity-tptb could flirt with the lines of race without offending the masses(sarcasm), which is why I don't think race applies to the case of Lane. When I see Lily, and don't identify her with the black experience. JMO.