Ellen Wheeler hopes to save the daytime soap....

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, soaps as we have known them, in my opinion, are going to die. I think that's been foretold & inevitable for some time. It could've been prevented if the PTB at P&G, Bell/Sony, Corday/Sony and ABC had wanted to put money back into the genre that they've taken from for so long and if the shows also implemented changes to keep bringing viewers into the fanbase and to be able to produce less expensively. Probably it would have been a good thing if they had all worked themselves down to having less show in the can, so they could react more quickly in the short-term to things that aren't working and things that are working, or in other words, follow Bradley Bell on that one thing - and only that one thing. :lol:

But, if soaps can do a good job with the time they have left, then, maybe they can facilitate a bridge to the kinds of soaps that may come.

An excellent point & one that Tom Casiello focuses on in the blog he posted today.

[Contessa Donatella]

Everything I know says she won on her own, professionally. And, lots of kinds of relationships do come about, at different times, between many in the industry.

But that is entirely consistent with Alan's current fortunes, or lack thereof, and his current insistence on messages from the beyond from Gus & his groupies.

And, that's where Irna set her different locales, for ATWT, current GL, AW and EON (Am I missing another one?) Even though the patterns she used were really bedroom communities of Cincinnatti.

I can see that. But, is it really time to dump all 'soap staples' as the magazine article said, in addition to other changes that have happened?

Peter Simon's leaving was his own doing. Nothing Wheeler did or Garrett did or reaching out to others who could talk to him about it, could change his mind. It is a sorrow to me. But, she's not the one who wasted him & is the one who tried to get him back with an actual storyline for him to be part of!

And, yeah, I detest 'G' & his hair & have no use for either of them. Although I could see how taking him to trial would be a way to bring closure to Cassie, and us, which is why the verdict made me cry, but that, in itself, is ongoing drama. Again, we wait for the outcome we want.

I grew up in a town like that & lived in many towns like that, growing up, while in college, some after college, and there were people who were known to have committed evil-doing, some multiple times, and never be caught, proven, found guilty, etc. Two different towns I lived in were on national newsmagazine shows about their inability to solve crimes.

I think she's moved the show more in that direction than I've ever seen anyone do, and to have done it rather seamlessly, in my own opinion. I can see taking it further, sure. And, I think Wheeler has respect. It's just not in her & her being of a theatre family & growing up on it since childhood, not to. Her homage to the beginning in celebration was inspired & brilliantly executed.

[Vee]

Speak for yourself, darlin'. I still support RC and OLTL and I think most people will perk up again once the 1968 storyline (which gets a bad rap) ends. Nor, I might add, did people's support of the show begin with these two short-lived summer fantasy storylines; in fact, that was when support waned. People got onboard with OLTL in the fall and earlier this year because of solid, well-done, down to earth storytelling: Viki's romance with Charlie; the Buchanan Enterprises struggles with Clint, Dorian, Jared and Natalie; Adriana, Rex and Gigi's triangle. None of that was grounded in fantasy, but rather simple, classic soap reality. This is not an issue of "Homespun, realistic drama GL" versus "over the top fantasy everything else," and to frame it as such would be incredibly inaccurate. GL's about as far from Ryan's Hope, for example, as you can get. GL has neither realism, nor compelling drama, nor down to earth storylines, nor storylines at all. When OLTL started winning fans this past year, it did so with its feet planted firmly on the ground. That's been the case, I might add, with every soap that has experienced critical acclaim in the last ten years, including Goutman and Sheffer's ATWT.

[MarkH]

Okay, I stand corrected . That was easy . You convinced me when you mentioned Ryan's Hope, which I have actually been seeing some mornings at 4 am.

[brimike]

I love you, Vee. I was all ready to try and find the words to type out a response re: Carlivati's OLTL, but you did it all for me. And in far better words. YOU ROCK!

[Vee]

I wish I could watch Ryan's Hope again but I'm simply not in a position to pay an extra $20 for more cable. Hell, I can't even get a re-connection for my Tivo, so I'm recording it all manually. So for now, I'm happy to have OLTL written by a protege of Labine.

[sungrey]

Oh, I gotta chime in on this one. Five days a week of character driven story can get old?? NO WAY.

This post may be long, so I apologize in advance.

I was a huge, huge fan of Edge of Night back in the 1980s. Now yes, soaps in the 1980s were way different than the ones that are on the air today, but one of the things Edge often did was sacrifice plot for character. A lot of the characters had quirks. Sky was so well defined. Gunther. Raven. Geraldine, Calvin, etc. They were well-rounded, they had personality. Larkin Malloy once said the greatest thing he enjoyed about Edge was the extra time the show took to develop character.

Character is what is missing from this GL, and so is the romance. Only love can save the world, Ellen. Really? Then why don't we have more of Dinah and Mallet? Cyrus and Marina? Josh and Reva? Hell, Vanessa and Billy, for cryin' out loud!! A poster previously pointed out to me that Ellen was messing with David's writing and having him write stories based on the couples she thought had chemistry. As a result we got Cyrus and Harley and no scenes between Beth Ehlers and Ricky Paull Goldin, a plot point that all but drove RPG off the show and forced Beth to exit several months later. It's no secret the writing was horrid for Harley and Gus (save for Gus's death, which was four-hanky material).

We also get no scenes between Marina and Cyrus. Now no mention has been made of whether Mandy Bruno and Murray Bartlett like working with each other or not, but those two had chemistry. I mentioned this in a previous thread about GL, but when Marina and Cyrus were paired Marina began showing some of the same sparkle she had when Aubrey Dollar was playing her. That's about four years removed from when Aubrey left the show, for cripes sake! Instead, supposedly because Mandy and Rob Bogue are a real-life item, we get Marina and Mallet, which is a reason not to eat from 3-4pm when the show is on.

And do not get me started on Dinah and Mallet. Gina Tognoni is very easy on the eyes, yes, but she's also a fabulous actress and an EMMY winner that rises far above the material she is given. She's been really good in this war with Alan, but as far as her on-screen love life it's non-existent. She and Rob OOZE chemistry.

We also get a story that is ludicrous. Grady not guilty - give me a frickin' break. I was not a Jammy fan by any stretch of the imagination, and I think the show has gotten a lot of drama from Tammy's untimely death, but we all saw the accident happen on screen. How can he not be found guilty?

I could go on and on, but I'll stop here. Something's missing from GL. It HAS gotten better lately, but it's still got a long way to go.

[phloeishot]

Another problem is stubborn head writers who are determined to write for the characters they like and the storylines they want without taking the history of the show into consideration or the popularity of particular couples on the show. This is true right now for DOOL and GH.

[Contessa Donatella]

I completely & wholeheartedly agree.

Here's where we disagree. Jeffrey & Reva finally finally finally allowed me to like Bradley Cole! And, it also allowed me to like Reva again. If they separate them, I'll scream. If they force Josh & Reva back together again, I may vomit. Enough's enough.

And, I have yet to see Mandy Bruno's Marina have serious chemistry with anyone. She was okay with the latest - also okay - Hyphenated Spaulding. Both okay, no better. They've been in trouble with Mandy Bruno ever since they began to try to play her sexy & female romantic lead material instead of being great at support & a cop & a family member & so forth. Maybe if they had her as a romantic person be more like the Marina we thought we knew - one who wasn't so frakin needy & clingy & desperate for a man.

I agree that I'd love to see Dinah & Mallet reunite. Frankly, I think that has to be in the future.

And, I hope we'll be back to seeing Lizzie and Bill, after a bit.

[Greg's GL]

But that is entirely consistent with Alan's current fortunes, or lack thereof, and his current insistence on messages from the beyond from Gus & his groupies.

I see this quite differently. Alan was walking around fields in suits when he was still CEO of Spaulding. This isn't something they just started doing since he's lost his company. And how about Dinah - current CEO of Spaulding - setting up chairs for press conferences (at least twice) in a FIELD? In what world do multi-million dollar companies have press conferences in the middle of a field?!?! And since when does the CEO set up the chairs?!?! I've never witnessed that. I work for a fairly large company, and we have conference rooms reserved for visiting clients and news conferences....and the CEO is never the one getting everything ready - it's an admin assistant!

And, I have yet to see Mandy Bruno's Marina have serious chemistry with anyone. She was okay with the latest - also okay - Hyphenated Spaulding. Both okay, no better.

I assume that you're referring to her romance with Alan-Michael? That SL is the embodiment of everything others have said about GL ignoring it's history and character motivations. A-M was at one time thought to be her FATHER! They never explained how or why these two were together and they didn't have one ounce the chemistry MB has with Cyrus. IMO, the pairing with her and Cyrus has been the one that actually worked.

It's not that EVERYTHING is bad with GL right now. They still have a respected, talented cast (even LSV is improving) that has arguably carried the load since the production format change. Why EW is so focused on the "reality" of the show is mind-boggling. Why should everything ELSE be sacrificed for the "reality" of the production format? The writing changes have been announced, but it just appears that they given their EXISTING writers a title change. I'm not sold on that actually changing anything in terms of narrative story.

EW may love soaps, she may have been a wonderful actress at some point in her career, but she's a horrible producer. She has some "vision", but has no idea how to implement it successfully. And when GL is canceled, I believe that she will go down in history as one of the worst EPs in the history of daytime.

[JackPeyton]

I see your point and even agree with everything you said.

however knowing what GL's financial state is i allow myself to just ignore it all and just go with it. no its not perfect, and there is a lot wrong. however i do find the show much better than its given credit for, but thern again i have only watched it since like 2001

[Greg's GL]

I guess that's my problem with the show. Whenever you're watching soaps, you do have to suspend disbelief to enjoy the SLs (how many people do you know that switch DNA tests, purposely crop pictures to make them look incriminating or "die" multiple times). However, with GL it's beyond just suspending disbelief.

Yes, the show has told some out-of-this-world stories (like the clone) that I actually enjoyed. And I know that financially they are strapped. But does it HAVE TO LOOK like they are (as one poster said) producing the show on $1.99 a day? Are they that bad off that they can't hire a non-speaking extra to set up chairs for a press conference? They can certainly hire some speaking extras as Alan's groupies! Things like that - day to day decisions on how the show is produced - just bother me because they seem to be all wrong.

I am still watching. And I think through my posts in this thread, there are things about the show that I like and have stated them. It's not like I sit on the couch with an EW koopie-doll sticking pins in it while I'm watching...I just wish someone at the show would take a little extra time to add details that we the viewers want to see. There's no reason the show should look the way it does if EW is working on it 80 hours a week.

[JackPeyton]

I do understand that.

The devil is always in the details, but i guess we just see it from differ views. because i look at it as them needing say Dinah & Bill to talk, but since people always bitch about them just having random convos in the field they figured why not have them do soemthing. like setting up chairs. granted it would work much betetr if Dinahw as running her own small compay and not a major vehicle like spaulding, but then again if i can let reality go and accept clones, possesed by the devil, kids growing to 18 overnight, and damn close to incest storylines i can accept a CEO setting up chairs. then again i also lvoed the maryanne storyline more than anything else on GL i have ever seen so...

I guess im just willing to cut her extra slack because i honestly do think she not only cares about GL - but this genre. And she is trying things, some fail - hell most do - but IMHO, it does come from her heart. And for me, that says a lot.

[Greg's GL]

Good point. Ya got me on that one, Jack!

[Dan]

Ya know, I think I might have to agree. I mean, she was tolerable with Cyrus, but all the other couplings that has been made for her have sucked. Of course, that was partly because of character history like the icky pseudo-incestuous story with A-M (who should have been been paired with Blake from the get-go. Something tells me that Keifer and Dempsey would have sizzled up the screen.)