Emmerdale: Discussion Thread

[Bright Eyes]

He plays Joe Roscoe. The eldest (and fittest, damn!) brother.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I've only seen him a few times on there. I thought he would have been too old for the role, but he looks a lot younger on HO than he did on ED.

[Bright Eyes]

I am surprised that you haven't lauded him for his assets yet.

[DRW50]

I'll have to keep an eye out. Literally most of what I've seen of the Roscoes in my limited HO viewing is Freedie's ugly tats and Robbie modeling earrings and looking pained.

[Bright Eyes]

I'm guessing you haven't seen this yet then?

[DRW50]

No. I hadn't. I haven't really kept track of those Gay Times/Attitude things in the last few years as I wasn't into most of the guys they chose. That's awesome. And he was even on the cover. Wow. I don't know why they dialed back the nudity to a nonexistent level on Hollyoaks. That's a killer ass; it should be shown off.

I'd seen the Lyndon Ogbourne photos from that issue (and he really must have gotten in because of gay fans as I don't think he's done much of anything post-Emmerdale). Lyndon looked much better with a bit of weight on him.

The British soaps continue to cast hot guys, which is more than I can say for US soaps. I hope the magazines there continue showing them off.

[DRW50]

Laurel's story with Marlon (which made me laugh at times [the bus run]) and Jimmy/Nicola were woven into the episode believably enough; a good counterpoint to the main drama. I really loved Bernice unwinding with a drink and another drink and another ("it's what Katie would have wanted") and settling in with Harriet for some bonding. Only the factory business felt out of place to me, as it also did in Katie's last episodes. I like Priya a lot but I don't care about anyone else in that group; I feel the screen die whenever simpering Jai appears.

Andy's scene with his kids absolutely decimated me.

Anyway, watching the episode and seeing reactions to it reminded me of how many viewers tend to want Hallmark-friendly moments and tend to focus on the harshness of the words without getting the meaning behind them.

Not just the Robert and Aaron scene (where I imagine reaction was torn between the fans who hate Aaron lapping it up, and the fans who love Aaron hissing and booing and waiting for Aaron to find a better man [newsflash - Aaron doesn't want a better man, and it won't make a difference, as even his relationships with "good" men have been toxic and dominated by self-loathing]), but also the Andy/Robert scene, where some fans were aghast that Robert wasn't more "comforting" toward Andy.

Robert generally says callous things to get the result he wants. The more he knows a person, the more he knows how to hurt them. What he says is often vile, but outside of day-to-day bitchery (like calling Belle a psycho), he tends to say it for a reason, sometimes selfish, sometimes not.

What he said to Andy was pretty much what had to be said. Everyone - and I mean everyone - patronizes and infantilizes Andy. They always have. It's one of the reasons he is a shell of a man. Robert tried to praise him, but when it wasn't going anywhere, he started speaking bluntly and pushing every button he could think of, especially with Andy's children.

Suicide isn't about being a "coward," and Andy's response at the end ("I'm already dead") shows there is no bright shiny helpline number in the shape of a rainbow just because someone doesn't kill themselves. The way Robert handled it was more than a little nasty, something that will leave scars. Some part of me wished the show had gone for a more emotional, happy-tears reconciliation between brothers. But it would not have been true to the characters, and it's not what Andy has ever needed Robert for, or loved him for.

Kelvin and Ryan both did a great job in the scenes, with Ryan effortlessly juggling the acidity of Robert's tongue with the love he felt for Andy, the terror Robert felt for his brother with the confusion and terror he felt about Aaron and about everything he and Aaron had set into motion.

Considering that Aaron's main purpose there was just pure melodrama, Danny Miller did a wonderful job of playing just how checked out Aaron was and how much he believed suicide may be the only solution. I'm afraid of heights, but even if I wasn't, I never could have done those cliffside scenes that Danny did. Little to no CGI as far as I could see. Even when spoilers told me Aaron wasn't going anywhere, my heart was still in my throat.

You could also see the stark difference between Robert and Aaron in that scene, with Andy caught in the middle.

Robert - you have to do this. You have to do this now. Listen to me. I know. Do what I say. It's for your own good.

Aaron - I can't tell you what to do. It's your choice. I don't know. I can't be you.

The fans who complained the loudest (and as always the fans who complain the loudest have the worst ideas) about how Aaron should have talked about Jackson and what terrible writing it was for Aaron not to mention Jackson when Andy asked him don't seem to have a concept of this type of conversation outside of fan fiction. That was not the time, on a windy cliff no less, for Aaron to go into a long speech about Jackson killing himself and losing Jackson and coping and going on. Aaron isn't "going on," he's coped abysmally, he is the last person to give advice, and even if he had advice, he wouldn't know how to say it, because he's not that type of person.

A part of me feels like the end scenes were rushed, but another part feels like they went on long enough, as I was so caught up in them and couldn't take much more.

I know some fans were angry that there was no final scene between Robert and Aaron, but it would have taken away from most of what we'd seen, and what was there to say between the characters? At this point there is no relationship, even if the show keeps having them break up and implying that means there is one. Aaron has feelings for Robert, and I'd say Robert has some for him too, but anything between them, if there ever is anything, is a very long way off. And given how plot-driven their relationship is, I would guess it won't start back up until a reveal or until they have Robert go psycho. Any fans who are hoping for Robert's reformation or for happy times are kidding themselves and making themselves miserable. I'd like to believe the fans who think Robert's self-harm comments are leading to him realizing Aaron is self-harming and being devastated by it, but...

I'm really sorry that these scenes went against the Lucy reveal on Eastenders (which, typically of Eastenders in the big reveals, was mostly silly shock value, but a good way to get attention), as that means most people will never see them. Yet again ITV treats Emmerdale like [!@#$%^&*] to try to damage Eastenders, instead of fixing their own lineup.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

We differ on our opinons regarding suicide but I totally get what you're saying about Robert and Andy. Andy does come across as a baby sometimes and the way everyone has been coddling him the last few days has been sort of annoying.

[DRW50]

I'm not really sure our opinions differ (I don't approve of suicide, I just don't think it's about being a "coward"), but yes, Andy is babied and has always been babied. Even worse is that the people who baby him aren't there when it counts, like Diane, who was horribly passive-aggressive and expected Andy to have "proper" grieving, which I imagine involves thinking of England and crying beautiful, classy tears.

Not that Robert was some type of grief guru in comparison - he only noticed everything with Andy because he saw Andy driving away - but I do think he knows more of all of Andy, the bad along with the good, and isn't afraid to dig deep.

I realize they are only playing up a relationship between them so Andy will be even more devastated by Robert's betrayal, but I hope it won't just end at that point. Kelvin and Ryan work so well together, and the brother relationship helps round Andy out as a character.

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I tend to view people who take that step in most circumstances as being weak or however you want to label it. But that's an argument for another day. Frankly I get that Andy has suffered a humongous loss and that he must be feeling terrible but he's got 2 kids to live for. That alone should have stopped him. And he was so ready to turn his back on Katie just 24 hours before she died so I'm not really sure i buy just how deep his feeliings for her were. From everything I saw Katie really really loved Andy but he seemd so passive about he. Heck I saw more emotion from him in his interactions with Robert than I did with Katie.

When I first turned onto Emmerdale I actulaly thought there was some weird vibes/chemistry between Andy and Robert...until I later found out from you guys that they were "brothers" even though they're not biologically related....

[DRW50]

Katie was a symbol of goodness to Andy. That's what she had always been. He often sought her out in his lowest moments, like after Jo fled Emmerdale, because if she still believed in him, that meant he was still "good" too.

I don't think Andy has ever been mentally stable, so that's why the suicide attempt did not surprise me. Andy is a mess of a man, all stemming back from when he was beaten as a child - the show often ignores this when it's time to take off his top, then remembers it at other times.

Well, I know some fans think Robert has suppressed feelings for Andy, so you aren't alone in that view. I don't see the show going there (unless Bryan Kirkwood takes over...), but I see what you mean. I do think Kelvin and Ryan have a lot of chemistry together.

Edited February 21, 2015 by DRW50

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

I completely forgot about Vic too....his poor sister was breaking my heart today.

[DRW50]

It's been nice to see so much of Bernice this past week, as she's a terrific character with deeper ties to the canvas than she's given credit for, and Samantha Giles has a way with both comedy and subtle drama, as shown with Bernice's reactions to Andy's suicide attempt, and Gabby making it clear that she's horribly ashamed of her as a mother.

Nicola Wheeler is a very similar actress in that she manages to wring pathos out of some pathetic moments for the character (like assuming that hot guy was hitting on her...only to learn he thought she looked like his mother). The show's really going to miss her in her absence.

I've been really impressed with Kelvin Fletcher's work this week. I have a feeling they may have plans for Andy/Chrissie, but I'd be more interested in Lawrence developing (unrequited, obviously) feelings for him, especially as I think that would send Robert and Lawrence on a horrible, horrible crash collision.

Edited February 22, 2015 by DRW50

[ThePrinceOfSunspear]

Who's Gabby?

I'm guessing Bernice is the woman who took the news of Andy's suicide attempt very hard. I get the impression she cares for Robert and Andy but I can't tell if she's biologically related to either of them somehow through their dad.

The scenes with that Nicola Wheeler in the resturant were very interesting. I got the feeling that she was feeling very sad/despondent despite being treated like luxury by her husband and the whole thing with the young guy was another sad moment when she realized it wasn't about her looks or being desired.

I'm glad that the mother of Andy's kids tore into his butt. That was well acted and I def felt for her more than Andy or the others who were just coddling hm (or trying to protect him as they'd say).

Your thoughts on Andy are interesting...of course the Andy/Chrissy thing can only occur after she finds out about Robert...

Edited February 23, 2015 by ThePrinceOfSunspear

[DRW50]

Gabby is Bernice's daughter with Ashley. She's about 13 or 14. She's a brat, basically. She's best known among fans for when she threw toys at Marlon after he began falling in love with Laurel.

She has no real relationship with Robert. She and Andy were, technically, stepsiblings, through Diane and Jack, but she wasn't around for any of that time Jack was with Diane (aside from a visit or two). She and Andy hooked were together last year until he got back together with Katie.

She was one of the show's main characters in the late 90s (she came into the show as a pub manager for Alan Turner, she was involved with a man who was a closeted bisexual, etc.). It's through her that Diane, Nicola, and Rodney were introduced.

An old photo of her constantly keeps watch on a shelf in the Woolpack den/living room, along with an ancient photo of Jack and 4-5 year old Robert.

Nicola recently had a miscarriage and then learned she can no longer have children. She has been depressed over it, and has lost her sex drive. She and Jimmy had a romp in the Woolpack toilet and she felt revived, but that guy saying what he said pretty much shot that to pieces.