The reason I mentioned it is, why the hell bring up John and Natalie's ONS, which is what the poster did. What does that have to do with any of this? To me it just sounded like a lead-in to talk about something else entirely which is completely irrelevant to the issue, no matter how any else of us felt or feel about Jolie or Jarlie or John and Marty.

For me, the facts remain: John and Marty had a developing relationship which they had just consummated. Todd knows all about it. He despises John and pins all the blame for his misfortune on John, Cole, and Blair as convenient scapegoats. How to hurt John and Cole? Marty. And "unrealistic hatred" has been what Todd has been about for years and years. See: Marty, Nora, Patrick, Bo, Sam, Andrew, Kevin, Marcie... Todd has a new scapegoat every day before breakfast. It's like a morning ritual for him.

Edited July 2, 200817 yr by Vee

The reason I mentioned it is, why the hell bring up John and Natalie's ONS, which is what the poster did. What does that have to do with any of this? To me it just sounded like a lead-in to talk about something else entirely which is completely irrelevant to the issue, no matter how any else of us felt or feel about Jolie or Jarlie or John and Marty.

John and Natalie's ONS is relevant here as it supports the argument that Marty didnt mean that much to him since he was able to sleep with someone else so soon after her death. It wasnt mentioned as an attempt to ignite some drama between fans of John/Nat and John/Marty

BTW, who is Jarlie?

John and Natalie's ONS is relevant here as it supports the argument that Marty didnt mean that much to him since he was able to sleep with someone else so soon after her death. It wasnt mentioned as an attempt to ignite some drama between fans of John/Nat and John/Marty

BTW, who is Jarlie?

Jarlie is Jared and Natalie.

Jarlie is another unfortunate blended couple name (for Jared and Natalie) which I have somehow found myself using. I blame society!

As for John and Natalie, yes I think it was just grief sex for both of them and was made very obvious at the time, so I don't get the issue. Grieving for Todd and the apparent loss of Marty's love did not stop Blair and Patrick from doing it years ago, or stop Kevin from kissing Kelly after losing Grace Davidson, or countless other former or future couples. I don't consider those scenarios to be major indictments of love for the lost party, even when I truly dislike the character. And I despise John, yes, but I don't think what happened with Nat in December means he didn't care for Marty and didn't see a future with her. He clearly did.

Edited July 2, 200817 yr by Vee

Hey Nelson!! <waves to Nelson>

Rocketman can't be Nelson because Rocketman likes GL! LOL

Oh God, there's John/Natalie talk? *runs away from this thread*

Rocketman can't be Nelson because Rocketman likes GL! LOL

Oh God, there's John/Natalie talk? *runs away from this thread*

I dont think Rocketman is Nelson. I know Nelson is lurking around here somewhere.

Whoa! I don't see a Jolie vs. Jarlie thing anywhere on this board ever. And positioning a discussion that way, isn't going to discourage it. I agree with the OP that I have never seen the kind of open hostility between Todd and John that would dredge up revenge motivation in Todd. John is annoying because he took a bite out of Todd's sandwich once, and he defends Cole. But I've never seen enough animosity between the two to justify holding a woman hostage just to hurt John. Cole is a possibility, but John is just a nuisance to Todd and vice versa.

Yeah, I mean, I was never into any of John's pairings, so this isn't about Nat for me either. I just think that they didn't build up John and Marty enough before CC left, for me to buy that J&M are some huge love story right now. I could see a picture of Patrick or Cole making Marty feel better, but John? There just wasn't enough build up there for me to buy into this great romance yet. And as I said, I just don't think Todd has enough reason to hate John to go to this extreme. If John and Blair were hooking up it would make much more sense to me. But anyway, I'll go with it and see where it leads. At least OLTL is keeping me interested.

When John and Todd share scenes, I see Michael Easton and his good buddy Trevor having a ball pretending. I enjoy that for what it is, but if they're trying to sell this huge conflict between John and Todd, they've really missed the boat. As for the John and Marty stuff, they also failed to deliver, but I get that the story they're telling NOW is that Marty is this great love of John's life and apparently he is for her as well. She can't remember anything (including her son, who she was totally devoted to and was the number one priority in her life) but she gets the warm fuzzies when she sees John's picture. Not heavy handed in the least (RME). I got it. It doesn't take a sledge hammer over my head. I am prepared to take that leap. Buy into the hype. Doesn't make it interesting.

Oh God, there's John/Natalie talk? *runs away from this thread*

Toups! I was a fan <blushes> and I agree. Take me with you!

I dont think Rocketman is Nelson. I know Nelson is lurking around here somewhere.

I hope not! I have yet to hear an intelligent word out of that man's mouth. Gah!

You reminded me of another reason that this doesn't work for me. Nothing is going to happen to Todd so there are no real consequences of all of this even if he comes to some short lived epiphany.

The whole revenge against John would have been plausible if his precious Caitlin were Todd's victim. After it was over, she and John could leave Llanview and Todd going on as usual would be fine.

EXACTLY!

I just nfeel like the entire show is so char driven, then there is this plot driven bullshit.

I think maybe I should start a callout thread to Nelson. Or perhaps I should reserve that for a less polite board.

I'm gonna be up very late now writing this post, cause I have to get up for work at 5:30 tomorrow morning. Dang.

Okay.

First, these 5 pages prove that the story is compelling and buzz-worthy, which is what any executive in daytime would want for their soap.

Second, from what I recall, I was the first on the 100 page OLTL thread to call this "mind rape" of Marty by Todd. I find it pretty reprehensible. But beyond what Todd is capable of? I wish it was, but apparently it's not.

Todd's motivations - I think the actors St. John and Easton have done a disservice by playing up the humor dynamic in their scenes, because while on a scene-by-scene basis it may be entertaining, it has undermined what COULD be a healthy feud, and one that might better motivate what Todd's doing now. Not only has John served as a father figure to Cole, and an antagonist to Todd's stance on Starr/Cole's relationship, but John and Blair have presented a somewhat united front against Todd when it comes to Starr/Cole, which Todd would view as John "turning Blair against him" because Todd never/rarely takes responsibility for his own actions.

But the other side of it is that John has long been in Marcie and Michael's corner when it comes to Baby Sam/Tommy, which hasn't really been mentioned in this thread as a contributing factor. Todd lost Blair and Starr, but he's also lost Sam again, which could motivate this as well.

Did what we saw on-screen between John/Marty build the romance to the point where we believe this is the ultimate way to get back at John? Not necessarily. But I think the writers believe it did. Which is short-sighted. Those are the flaws in the story.

We also DON'T know where this is going. I haven't gotten a romantic vibe. Especially from Todd, which would be worse than from Marty, given the amnesia. When Michael gave a diagnosis based on the x-rays John found, and listed the potential maladies the victim might suffer, including amnesia, mood swings, rage episodes, etc, I viewed that as the writers making Marty a more volatile, edgy, less saintly character this time around, giving the writers more room to play with how Marty would react in situations and keep Marty from being the damsel in distress she was when Christina Chambers was in the role (victimized by Spencer Truman and Miles Laurence). This tells me Marty's reaction when she does regain the memories of Todd (and she WILL have to regain her memory for the story to have any satisfying payoff), is going to be ten times more violent than it would have been before the head injury. That's GOOD! Todd might get shot after all!

My biggest fear with this story was that Todd would debut Marty as his wife when John and Cole and everyone discovered she was alive (based on what I'm not sure is a spoiler or not, that

Todd and Blair sign divorce papers again

). But Marty could continue on as Todd's dupe for quite some time, even after people find out she's alive, without it turning romantic between Todd/Marty, so again, I will wait and see. My biggest HOPE for this story was that Todd would realize how much he's hurt everyone and use finding Marty alive and returning her to her loved ones as a way to prove he was capable of something good and selfless. Looks like that isn't happening. At least not yet.

But looking at it from a dramatic standpoint, if Marty is presumed dead and Lee Ramsey was the only one who knew she was alive, who is the next WORST person to discover she's alive when Ramsey bites the dust? TODD. Because of all the history. Is it right that he's trying to use it to his advantage? No. Is it "Todd" of him to behave that way? I have to say yes. Todd's a screwed up character, he makes bad choices and continues to suffer the consequences of his actions, although perhaps not to the degree he deserves. But a flawed Todd is one I'd rather watch than the disgusting, happy Todd I saw playing poker with Blair, Starr, Jack and Sam the night before Starr ran away, beaming about how he's so happy to be under the roof with his whole family and this is how it should always be........ It REALLY creeped me out, and it's not the way Todd needs to be as a character on OLTL's canvas.

So take this post for what it is. I get where you are coming from, Jay, but I think you need to give this story a little more room to breathe before you assume the writers are trying to force a concept on you.

I'm sure Marty will view it as a similar kind of violation. She'd be right.

I don't think John and Marty's relationship has been called "the love of [their lives]" on the show but I think it has been treated as significant for them. I say that and I hate them, but I can buy that. She wasn't Kat-Bot Fitzgerald, that's for sure. And Todd's gone after other people to get at his enemies before. That's what it's really about, of course, but I think in his head he'd really get touted as a hero for "doing right" by Marty, while she'll eventually "understand" he was right to keep her from McBain.

Edited July 2, 200817 yr by Vee

I honestly do not think its going anywhere romantic. not at all. never have.

but my issue is this. TODD IS MIND RAPING MARTY! a woman he gang raped years ago. and there will be no fallout for him.

no fallout = whats the point?

but my issue is this. TODD IS MIND RAPING MARTY! a woman he gang raped years ago. and there will be no fallout for him.

How do we know that? He sure looks like he's painted in a corner. I'm starting to wonder myself.

no fallout = whats the point?

You watch GH, right? You tell me.

but my issue is this. TODD IS MIND RAPING MARTY! a woman he gang raped years ago. and there will be no fallout for him.

I have the opposite reaction. I love it because it's so twisted and there's history between the two.

no fallout = whats the point?

I believe there will be. This isn't Guza or Higley who's writing this.

I'm sure Marty will view it as a similar kind of violation. She'd be right.

I don't think John and Marty's relationship has been called "the love of [their lives]" on the show but I think it has been treated as significant for them. I say that and I hate them, but I can buy that. She wasn't Kat-Bot Fitzgerald, that's for sure. And Todd's gone after other people to get at his enemies before. That's what it's really about, of course, but I think in his head he'd really get touted as a hero for "doing right" by Marty, while she'll eventually "understand" he was right to keep her from McBain.

It has been treated as significant but not in their scenes together. More in scenes with Coal and John and Todd and Marty. Fine, I can buy that. Still not interesting.