2008 BRITISH Soap Awards Montage

[Cat]

I still say a big part of the loss in audience is a case of timeslots. Last year, I went on a business trip to the Baltic States, behind the former Iron Curtain. I was unpacking in my hotel room in Estonia, @ 7pm, and switched on the TV. Only to find B&B. IN ENGLISH. With Estonian subtitles. German and Latin American soaps were on the rival TV stations.

Which makes sense. Schedule your shows pre-Primetime when more people are at home, putting dinner together. I've said for a long time, ABC, NBC and CBS need to shift their soap programming down from 12.30pm-4pm to 5pm-8pm.

[MarkH]

But that is where the misogyny, ageism, and classism comes in.

Because they think the soap viewer base is ugly old women, with curlers in their hair, living in trailers in the midwest, all over 49, all with less than high school educations...there is no incentive to build the franchises back up. They WANT them to die, because they want to get rid of their perceived ugly-old-woman fanbase.

They'd consider this experiment with 'The Hills' in a heartbeat (but only give it weeks to succeed).

The real problem is that the Madison Avenue coke addicts--sorry, I mean advertising agencies--have no desire in associating their brands with those ugly old women. This collective distaste is the problem.

Even American Idol is now "in trouble" because it is skewing older. The fact that is lures an intergenerational audience is a BAD thing, if you can believe it.

This perception problem is SO deeply ingrained, I see no way of fixing it.

I agree with the other posters. The genre must die and be missed. And then it can be reinvented under new assumptions.

Nothing is EVER gonna last 70 years again, though. And maybe that is a good thing.

[ReddFoxx]

I watched EastEnders for almost a year and it resembled more of a primetime drama to me. Big differences are that the corporate drama and antics of the upper class were absent and the characters tend to be middle to lower income with edgier, grittier storylines than the US soaps.

[All My Shadows]

What about our soaps having their own identity that's not dictated by what's working for other shows? Gritty and edgy is what "EastEnders" was built on and what its traditional audience expects. Gritty and edgy is not what "As the World Turns" was built on and it shouldn't be what its traditional audience expects. If EE suddenly became this high domestic drama, abandoning the realism and grit, people would shun it and say that it isn't the same show. If ATWT suddenly became this ultra realistic, gritty, edgy show, and abandoned the domestic/community-type themes, it wouldn't be the same show either.

In the same vein, I used to hate it when people would say that all soaps should be like Y&R. Can you imagine AMC becoming a Y&R? Y&R works because it's Y&R. AMC shouldn't be focused on business first and relationships second. That's not what AMC is about and just because Y&R does business storylines a certain way doesn't mean that all other soaps should follow suit and copy Y&R. That's lazy and sacrifices the integrity of each show.

Copying off of what's popular might not kill ratings, but it sure as hell makes the shows a dime a dozen.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Since we're on the topic of British soaps and since Hollyoaks won the most BSA's this year. Did anyone see today's AMAZINGLY SAD episode?!? It's truly the end of an era with Max dying.

OK, here's some backing info before I post clips. The John Paul and Kieron affair came to a climax this week, when John Pauls' mother, Myra, finds out what's really been going on. For those of you who don't know, Kieron is the gay priest Myra let into her home, but Myra's son John Paul is also gay and over the course of time develops an affair with Kieron, yes that John Paul, always unlucky in love (which is the theme in this week's episodes BTW). Anyway, at Steph and Max's wedding, Myra bursts in and reveals what her son and Kieron the Catholic priest have been up to! However, you get more of that at the end of Thursday's episode, which is not the focus of my post.

On to Max and Steph, which is the major focus of my post. After years of being unlucky in love and several attempts at being killed by Clare last year, Max finally found love with Steph. However, today was their wedding day and the man, Nial, who is in love/obsessed with Steph is driving by the location where they're celebrating. Max's little brother Tom is in the street and is about to be run over by a speeding car that's driven by Nial, Max sees it and rushes to save his little brother. Max is more like a father to Tom, since their parents are dead and he was left to take care of Tom. Anyway, Max ends up being the one hit, and he dies in the arms of his best friend OB (who has been though EVERYTHING WITH HIM) as Steph rushes to the scene and watches and cries on her wedding day.

[!@#$%^&*] is definitely going to hit the fan next week when Steph finds out that Nial killed her husband on their wedding day.

From those who aren't familiar with the show, it's definitely the end of an era, as Max has essentially grown up on the show. It was fitting to have him die in OB's arms, since their best mates have as I said, BEEN THROUGH EVERYTHING TOGETHER. To think I was a bit sad when OB left the show a few months back, but this is truly the end of it all.

Here's today's episode posted by a lovely person on youtube:

End of Thursday's episode:

Friday's episode:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

It had everything I was looking for. It had love, community, friendship, humour, suspense, death, grief, and irony (Max finally seemed to find love, but dies as he reaches it.)

Hollyoaks is no longer to me the lesser of the British soaps. What Bryan Kirkwood has managed to do with this show over the past two years of so is nothing short of BRILLIANT.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

The episode that follows, for those of you who might be interested.

[Toups]

There's so many hot women on Hollyoaks! Hannah Tointon(sp?). Then there's Gemma Bissix who won Best Exit and Roxanne McKee who won Sexiest female.

I gotta start watching this show. Is there a youtube channel with full episodes? I'm looking for a time period when Gemma and Hannah were front burner.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Joost has full episodes of Hollyoaks (but I think it's only available to those in the US.)

If you want to see episodes where both Gemma and Hannah were both frontburner, then I'd suggest searching for spring, summer, and early fall 2007 episodes of Hollyaoks. I don't think there's full episodes on youtube.

crumpetsandjam and da33431 have clips from the whole John Paul story, in those clips you'll find scenes with the various other storylines going on though.

[Toups]

Do you have a link? I couldn't find anything.

Do you know the episode #s of fall 2007?

[anita30]

I doing the happy dance Craig is coming back to Hollyoaks. Just have to say that.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

http://www.joost.com/0630001

That's the link to the Hollyoaks Joost channel. Assuming you have a Joost account (it's free!) and have the Joost player installed, you should be able to see episodes as far back as 2006, I believe.

Clare (Gemma) exited in September 2007, I don't know the number.

On Joost, there's episode recaps that tells you everyone who is in a particular episode.

Again, I don't know if the Hollyoaks Joost channel is available to those outside of the US.

[Toups]

Yeah, it doesn't work because I'm in Canada.

I guess I'll just watch clips since I can't watch full episodes.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I wonder how they're going to bring him back. There's so much unfinished business there, but John Paul and Kieron seem to be getting on nicely. It could be a nice gay love triangle and we know they'll play all the beats, after all, this isn't an American soap...

Has it been announced when Burnet is coming back yet? I mean, the John Paul and Kieron affair just reached its climax this week, I think they should wait a while before they bring Craig back into the picture. But as we know, Craig was the great love for John Paul, even though he couldn't admit it in public and still isn't comfortable with his sexuality.

[nicknack]

Just a few comparisons, I looked up some of the ratings:

In Germany the poorest rated soaps still have around 1,5 million viewers out of an overall population of 83 million. If you translate that into the US' 303 million inhabitants that would translate into roughly 5,5 million viewers. Their top rated soaps can get up to 4,5 million viewers that translates into 16 million viewers (admittedly in their top spot at 7pm), but that's still more ratings than Ugly Betty and Lost and many other shows are making. Most soaps seem to average around 2 million depending on what time of day they are on which would still translate to 7 million viewers in the US for a non primetime spot.

The UK is even more extreme. You have 60 million inhabitants and Coronation Street gets between 5 and 12 million viewers. Translated into US viewers even on its poorest day (5 million viewers) Coronation Street would get 25 million viewers which even CSI is rarely hitting these days. Highest rated Coronation Street episode? Would translate to 60 million. Again their poorest shows have gone as low as under 1 million viewers but that would still translate to 5 million US viewers at a disadvantageous timespot. Now top Hollyoakes numbers are more around 3,5 million which would translate into 17 million US viewers which is akin to Desperate Housewives and Grey's Anatomy.

It definitely seems like the US soaps should consider adopting this strategy of putting the soaps on later and rather then pitting them against each other air them after each other even across networks.

[quartermainefan]

Yup, content is not why soaps are failing, because anyone who is not a soap fan will tell you they were stupid and ridiculous during any year you want to put forth as the best year ever for soaps. The problem for the networks besides not wanting to air soaps at night is they do not have access to early evening hours. They gave that time to their affiliates to run syndicated fare like Jeopardy. I do think DOOL would propser on a M/W/Fr schedule at 8 PM.