Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

 

I am in the same boat with you as I am trying to figure out what went wrong with AH. She seems to have so much potential on this show and you are instantly drawn to her, but she gives you the opposite on Y&R. Maybe she is just phoning it in at this point, but whatever the issue, she needs to recapture the magic she used to have. 

 

Glad that it wasn't just me that thought about the Gwen/Stacey connection. I know that many have said that Gwen killed Stacey due to her ties to the Aldens, but after seeing this, it makes me wonder too if Buck had some part in Gwen offing Stacey. Were Buck/Stacey still involved around the time of her demise? 

 

What's with tension between Casey/Cooper? Were they beefing over Ally at the time? I thought that Cooper was being tossed into Steffy's orbit about that time. Also, didn't Ally have a child with Cooper or was it with Casey? How much longer do you think before we get to PAS' final episode on the show?

 

And I have been entranced by the lavish sets too. Just makes me emotional about how low daytime has fallen since the 90s. 

 

 

[DRW50]

 

Even by the time she was on AMC it wasn't really there anymore. I guess maybe she's spent those years looking for good dick...or her heart wasn't in it after she broke up with Michael Weatherly. 

 

The reason that they seemed to give for Gwyn killing Stacey was that Stacey told her she felt like her life was empty and lonely, so "Trisha" killed her to spare her more pain. The Buck angle would have been interesting though. Stacey and Buck were reconnecting when she died - the poisoned body powder she put on was for a date with him. 

 

Cooper was in love with Ally but she was in love with Casey, even though she had a child with Cooper. Cooper was scheming to keep them apart. From this I surmise that Steffi and Casey were lying that they slept together, for some reason. Maybe because Casey had agreed to stay away from Ally. 

[NothinButAttitude]

 

I thought she was fine on AMC as Mia. I just thought that Mia's pairing were stupid. Especially, with Edmund. Mia worked best when she was with the other Fusion girls. 

 

I didn't know that she was prepping for a date with Buck when she was killed. See that makes me question even more is Gwen really did kill her to "spare" her or if she did it out of spite b/c of Buck. They should've explored that a bit more. 

 

See I knew I remember Ally having a child with Cooper. Did Cooper/Michael Weatherly leave the show before or during the Loving killings? Did he even pop up during The City b/c I don't remember if he did. If not, I guess he'd go on to be one of the many deadbeats soaps produced who left their kids behind. But doesn't Casey die via overdose?

[Sapounopera]

He did show up in the show's first Christmas episodes. Deborah also showed up.

 

BTW I had never seen Larkin as Clay before and from these few minutes, I feel that he was the best-suited for the part. I'd love to see Celeste Holm and Patricia Barry as Isabelle, but I feel that Augusta was the ideal rich Alice Horton.

 

Amelia was gorgeous back then and in my eyes she still is.

[You're Soaking in it]

 

Gwen was involved with Jeremy at the time; there was no indication of spite from her toward Stacy... Gwen's sole reason for the murders was that they were "Loving" gestures to spare people from their pain. She even (as "Trisha," of course) tried but failed to kill herself by clogging the exhaust on her car... which coincidentally threw off viewers as to who the culprit was.

 

Michael Weatherly left Loving before the Loving murders. He then returned / appeared briefly on The City to have Cooper reunite with Steffi and facilitate AH's exit from the show.

 

Casey dies a hero - he kicked his drug habit many months before PAS left the show. Casey actually helped take down the drug ring in Corinth. A sting operation happened, things went haywire and Casey was shot. He died in Ally's arms, staring into her eyes. His last words were, "when I look at you, I see forever."

[NothinButAttitude]

 

Aww. How sad. I've always heard for years that Casey died thanks to overdosing. Glad to hear it was otherwise. But now I wanna see this entire arc!!!

 

Why can't someone with a library of Loving episodes come forward?!

 

[DRW50]

Lisa Brown played the drug agent who killed him - I think she was corrupt. 

 

This was also Danny's intro to the show, and Ally lied that he raped her in order to pay him back for his role in Casey's death. 

 

The show played the "they're even now" shell game and repeatedly tried to pair them up, but viewers never really wanted it. Unfortunately this meant she was lumbered with Tony, always a boring, annoying scene-killer for me.

 

[NothinButAttitude]

 

Lisa Brown was on Loving?! This was after her stint on ATWT, right? I didn't know this! 

 

I didn't care for Danny at all on The City. Love Ted King but the character was a bore. I do think that he and Laura Wright had a bit of chemistry, but as you stated, it was forced. 

 

Now I have to disagree with you as I love Tony/Ally on The City. 

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 George Palermo was freaking HAWT! 

[DRW50]

Yes. It was between her ATWT exit and GL return. I've always wanted to see it. 

[dc11786]

 

I'm pretty sure Horan's Clay left for California before Dinahlee appeared, but I may be wrong. When Clay returned from California in January 1992, it was Larkin Malloy, and he was almost immediately paired with Dinahlee. The Dinahlee / Trucker affair was over and Trisha was heavily pregnant, as you can see in the February 1992 clip. In the spring, Dinahlee and Clay were involved with Hannah, Dinahlee's kid sister. I think Dinahlee had told Hannah she was engaged or something along those lines to cover up her indiscretions. Clay played along, I believe, but the truth eventually came out. Then, Clay learned their was a provision in Cabot's will about remarrying Gwyn to inherit money or the company. They ended up missing the deadline as well as learning Tim Sullivan was his real father. At that point, Clay sulked and disappeared. I'm almost positive he was gone either shortly after or shortly before they wrote out Jack disappearing during his honeymoon because the long story was clearly Clay had kidnapped Jack to get a hold of the company. This was all June/July 1992 when Walsh exited and Granger decided to go solo until the fall when Taggert and Guza arrived.

 

In the fall, Clay returned during Dinahlee's downfall. She received a letter saying she had slept with someone who tested positive for and STD. Then, she ended up naked at the opening of 35 Maple Drive, where I believe you see Ally picking up those papers in the 1993 episode. In October, Dennis Parlato temps for Larkin Malloy. When Malloy is set to return in November, Malloy is fired and Parlato assumes the role permanently. Storywise, Clay then targeted Stacey to get the company, they brought on Jeremy to be Stacey's savior, and Clay and Stacey divorced in January 1993. In February, Curtis returns and meets Dinahlee, but both of them use alias and share a passion for 1950s nostalgia. By June/July 1993, Dinahlee and Curtis are married. They wrote out the second Curtis 1993 edition in August when he torched PINS! the bowling alley accidentally leaving Louie Slavinski to die. These were either Bernie Barrows last episodes or the last episodes for the temp replacement.

 

 

 

That was Matt Ford, the young man dating Ally. Matt was written out around this time when they shipped the character off to college out of state. I had forgotten that Paul, Carly and Flynn were still around. From what I recall, Flynn was Paul's physical therapist as well as the fourth member of the quad with Carly, Paul, and Ava. Flynn, Carly, Michael, and Paul are all written out within the next couple months. Before leaving, Carly and Paul marry, but I think the wedding takes place offscreen.

 

  

 

 

[DRW50]

Thanks so much. I had no idea Louie died that way. How terrible. Who was the temp?

 

I hope you're enjoying these episodes and we can hear some of your thoughts on them. 

[slick jones]

Jack Davidson was the actor that filled in as Louie Slavinsky

 

[dc11786]

 

The partial episode is from September 1993, Alex just got back to town in September. This is one of his first episodes back. I think they played with a Dinahlee / Alex flirtation briefly, which was probably dropped by Nixon. The second episode is definitely October 1993. Buck and Gwyn don't marry, and Gwyn loses the baby in the next couple of episodes. Clay comforted her during the miscarriage. I would really like to see that set of scenes.

 

I really liked Casey's loft.

 

I had forgotten that they toyed with Steffi and Frankie, which is funny given the turn of events on AMC with Frankie and Heinle's character.

 

The younger set was strong and seemed to get consistently strong writing, but the storyline itself seems to be shifting in motivations. I have to wonder how that came across to the audience. The initial Hannah/Cooper pairing was a bust, but Casey/Ally seemed to work from day one. Ally scheming to get Cooper was the story until the pregnancy, and it was only after they introduced Steffi that they seem to shift Cooper's motives. I think Ally and Cooper married around the time the baby was born for insurance purposes. After seeing the 1993 episodes, I think Cooper might have used the insurance situation to trap Ally, but I could be wrong. From other clips, Steffi and Casey had good chemistry and shared destructive backgrounds. As a quad, all the actors had good chemistry with one another, which is a rarity now.

 

Buck and Stacey were involved, but they had also brought back Christopher Marcantel to play as a romantic spoiler to the Buck/Stacey romance. That is why Curtis was initially a suspect and sent to Dunellyn. In reality, it was Gwyn who sent her own son to the mental hospital where she killed him because he didn't want to be trapped there anymore. There was also a bit of a history of rivalry between Gwyn/Stacey because of Rick. In a fall 1993 episode, Gwyn watches J.J. and Heather during one of Buck and Stacey's dates. When Buck arrives, Stacey cuts the romantic tension between Buck and Gwyn by reminding Heather to call Gwyn "Grandma" in order to emphasis her age.

 

There are some small scenes from 1995 I would like to see, like Curtis and Stacey reconnecting and Stacey and Ava burying the hatchet because all of their friends (Trisha, Shana, and Dinahlee) had left Corinth. Overall, I don't have much passion to see much of 1995.

 

Cooper and Ally had Tyler. In November 1992, Cooper and Hannah were together. Hannah went to NYC to audition and stayed with her music teacher. Coop and Ally followed, Coop thought Hannah slept with the teacher, and Ally and Coop slept together. Then, Ally learned she was pregnant and gave birth during the summer.

 

Casey died in May 1995. These episodes are fall 1993. Casey and Ally married at some point in 1994. Casey struggled supporting the family and that's when he turned to drugs (again?). Cooper left in March/April 1995 to head the Europe offices of Alden Enterprises.

[NothinButAttitude]

Thanks, @dc11786. 

 

Yeah, I teen/young adult sets don't have chemistry on soaps like they used too. Most of them are isolated from their peers much like the vets/older characters are. You don't see much interaction or relationships between youthful characters anymore unless they are boning each other, getting married, preggers, or trading bitchy barbs. It's all pretty surface writing and nothing deep. 

 

I didn't know that there was such tension between Gwen/Stacey seeing as I've never seen it on the few episodes of Loving that have been accessible. If anything, Ava typically would be receiving the venom from Gwen and the Aldens while Stacey was typically put on a pedestal. I would truly love to see some of the scenes of the two of them tossing barbs against each other. 

 

I've always wondered, but who got custody of JJ and Hannah after Stacey was killed? Also, who was DinahLee friends with? Wasn't it Ava? 

 

Thanks for the historical breakdown of Stacey/Curtis. I didn't know that those 2 had much interaction too, as I only know that Jack and Curtis beefed over Lily in the early years of the show. Did Curtis ever try to pursue Stacey when Jack was alive? 

[dc11786]

 

Sorry. I did write it as if Louie died in the fire. He lives, but, given what was going on (BB had died), it left a bad taste in some viewers that this was one of the last moments Louie was seen on the show. Louie died later in his sleep. 

 

I'm interested in the episodes from a research perspective. Addie Walsh was there in February at the latest. The news of her hiring was announced in January, and a December 1991 episode is credited to Mary Ryan Munisteri. When Walsh was hired, Munisteri had only been there 3 months, but it seems Walsh was using her team (Labine definitely and possibly Tolan). So Taggert was barely gone a year before they brought her back, which is interesting to me.

 

The February 1992 material was alright. I'm not a big Trisha / Trucker fan. I think Noelle Beck does well with the material, but there is nothing that makes the material stand out to me. Malloy and the writing hint at some of Clay's shortcomings, but Nixon does it better in the full episode from 1993 (October 1993) when Ava questions Alex about the pictures of the Alden family. The dynamic between Clay and Alex is different; the Aldens preferred Alex the imposter over their true son, father, and husband. That tension could have been played for years. I thought Gwyn's speech about the divided Alden clan was interesting, but also highlighted the structural issues with LOVING. Over the years, the show had wittled itself down to just the Aldens, and, at this point, the Aldens aren't working for me.

 

It's hard to get interested in the Carly/Michael/Paul stuff because I know its about to end. I don't blame LOVING for that; I blame watching DAYS in recent years with its delay between the announcement of a purge and the characters and stories leaving. I did like Ava stating she wanted Michael and Sandy to grow up together. That was a very real and honest moment.

 

The first 1993 episode (the partial from September) was stronger than I expected. I think the cast does well with the material. Jessica Collins plays the stuff with Randolph Mantooth really well, and I think an Alex/Dinahlee friendship would have upset the establishment (mainly Ava) enough to cause tension. I thought they integrated Frankie well into the younger set without a dominant story, but I would like to see them do more with him as he acts mainly as a spoiler for his mother's romances except for the brief period Elise Neal appears as Janie.

 

The second 1993 (the full one from 1993) is a mix for me. Some strong material with Alex and Ava dealing with Alex's lies. It was nice to Sandy, who was off the show for several years before Alex returned. Peluso also did a good job playing those scenes. It would have been easy to go over the top, but Ava seemed more hurt, and more dangerous, by playing it straight. The Coop/Casey scenes were strong. The Ally/Steffi scenes were very emotional and well developed. I felt genuinely sorry for both young women, which is rarely the case in modern soap.

 

The Buck/Gwyn stuff is of little interest to me. Buck isn't the type of man I picture with Gwyn with other than for a roll in the hay. Also, the pregnancy element was a bit much for me. Nixon tries her best, but it doesn't work for me. I imagine it didn't work for her either as I'm pretty sure Gwyn and Buck were done shortly after this.

 

The show was definitely losing something with Weatherly and Stewart's departures. With that said, I would haven't have killed off Casey. I would have had Casey fake his death as part of the sting (with Ally knowing the truth) and then bringing in a recast Coop for the funeral to comfort Ally. Then, when the truth comes out, I would have sent Casey to rehab to detox and brought back Casey just as Coop and Ally were getting close and Steffi realized she was pregnant from a one-night stand with Coop.

 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Gwyn blamed Stacey for Rick going off the deep end.

 

I think the kids went to Florida to live with the Donovans.

 

Ava and Dinahlee were friends. They had a couple of capers together. One involved a dead body in the trunk of a car. I think Elizabeth Mitchell's final scenes as Dinahlee were with Ava, telling her she was pregnant (again) with Trucker's baby.

 

Curtis pursued Stacey for a hot minute in the summer of 1983 or thought about it, but that was prior to Jack and Stacey. Given the Jack/Curtis/ Lily history, a Stacey/Curtis pairing would have been a good place to start when they brought Jack back from the dead. I think that Curtis might have claimed he had cared for her in the past during his confession of feelings, but I think that was just the writers writing something right that happened to have a historical basis despite a lack of actual knowledge if it was true or not.