As much as I'm not pleased with MAB, I do think he heart was in the right place and she could be trained to become great. She's just not ready to be thrown into such a huge position with no experience. The others? No connections to Y&R and I'm sure they aren't passionate about the show.

I agree completely - I think she shouldn't have been thrown into HW position right away and that her heart is in the right place. I would also like to add something I mentioned several times - Lynn Latham hated Y&R and only accepted the position because of money: she also saw it as an attempt to rebuild her destroyed, nonexistent career. That is one of many reasons she sucked biiiiiig time and should be banished and doomed to live the rest of her life on Planet Moron.

About Hogan....

1) His bible for DAYS was done. The show started using it and before it could take off, they told him he couldn't use the central players in his bible (Marlena, John, Bo and Hope).

I love these Casiello information.

2) Stories that were supposed to last 2-4 weeks were stretched out for MONTHS on the order of those above him (The stupid island story, Sami's wedding, the whole DiMera Ireland crap)

Too bad. But... I can't write right now, I'm p!ssed and you wouldn't understand me.

The stories could and should have been tweaked to be better, but given the interference, how do we know it wasn't attempted?

Because it was probably easier not to attempt it. You still earned your salary (measured in millions) and didn't have to do all the hard work. I like Hogan as a person, but he has serious shortcomings as a writer - he basically writes well only when he has a good right hand (e.g. Carolyn Culliton on ATWT). And the fact that he was so clearly hijacked by the awful Ken Corday didn't help.

The other thing I like about him is that he seems to be a methodical writer and very detailed in his bibles. That is a plus, even when the stories he crafts suck.

It is quite funny that he didn't actually learn a thing while at DreamWorks. As Head of Development (or whatever it is that he was) he probably read tons of baaaaaaad screenplays and that bad work spoiled his, clearly. He didn't learn how to dissect the story and see what are the things that aren't working.

Edited May 22, 200817 yr by Sylph

Well, my gut tells me that what LML was writing was not better than what we are seeing now. It was worse. That's just my opinion and I'm entitled to it.

As for the ratings. My friend, since when has that been an indicator of quality? Santa Barbara never budged from the bottom 3 at its height! OLTL has soared in my estimation in recent weeks but that has not (yet?) been reflected in its demos.

My point in the original post was just to avoid turning our very valid displeasure with the show into some kind of collective hysteria. It is precisely this attitude that got Jack Smith and everybody who had worked on the show for 15+ years turfed out on their ear.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to settle for "mediocre" where Y&R is concerned because I love the show, have done for years. And right now, it is mediocre and needs fixing. It needs fixing because LML ruined it for 2-3 years! Instead, we now have a situation where Sony has rushed through a shock-and-awe hiring. Just like they did with LML.

You can't always go by ratings reflecting quality espcially with subtle drops and rises. Also quality is subjective and is based on opinion. However these there have been 2 new lows (essentially 3 new lows when you count the fact that the new low dropped from 3.8 to 3.6 instead of 3.7) since these writers came aboard which means that viewers are tuning out and are apparently not happy with what they are seeing on the screen. One can only assume since there was NO new lows during LML's tenure that the viewers are more unhappy with Bell and Griffith's writing then they were during LML's tenure.

Edited May 22, 200817 yr by PJA

You can't always go by ratings reflecting quality espcially with subtle drops and rises. Also quality is subjective and is based on opinion. However these there have been 2 new lows (essentially 3 new lows when you count the fact that the new low dropped from 3.8 to 3.6 instead of 3.7) since these writers came aboard which means that viewers are tuning out and are apparently not happy with what they are seeing on the screen. One can only assume since there was NO new lows during LML's tenure that the viewers are more unhappy with Bell and Griffith's writing then they were during LML's tenure.

I don't believe Y&R hit a 4.0 in any of the dailies for that week either. That is definitely a first. I think they peaked at 3.9 on Thursday. Their ratings are definitely trending downward, and they really need to do something. They're very lucky in that the show's canvass is chockful of vets and the newbies are, for the most part, related to the core families, so it shouldn't be that difficult for Hogan to get things back on track. If Hogan doesn't work out, I can see the show in the low 3's by the end of the year.

This thread needs to be bumped after this week's atrocious ratings!

Indeed it does. *starts beating drums for MAB and JG to be fired once again*

I don't know that it's all that much worse since LML left, but it's just more of the same crap day in a day out. And folks that were trying to hold out hope that the show would improve are finally tuning out. The entire show needs to be reworked....all of it...we now have couples we hate, character's written ridiculously....the show is absolutely aimless. It has been for nearly three years.

I think soon people will again start writing posts in this thread. One has left the soap and Maria is starting to lose control again...

I think the combo of MAB and Hogan seems to be working the show seems to be getting back to the glory days not saying it's as good as Bill Bell but it sure beats any other soap especially a ABC soap

I think soon people will again start writing posts in this thread. One has left the soap and Maria is starting to lose control again...

But has it been confirmed that Griffith is hopefully out? Also, where did you hear that Maria was losing power again? Where has her power gone and who took it away?

But has it been confirmed that Griffith is hopefully out? Also, where did you hear that Maria was losing power again? Where has her power gone and who took it away?

Oh, no! You misunderstood — I meant, she's losing control of stories. Those previews for the fall look dull.

Oh and ratings are decreasing week by week again, you'd think that BOTH Griffith and Maria, despite her being married to the boss, would be on their way out.

NEITHER have contributed a damn thing to the show, and the show is still as inconsistent as ever. I don't care if it's a marked improvement from a year ago or three months ago, Griffith and Bell have shown that they aren't the right match for this show and their incompetences are only hurting the reputation if the show as a whole.

Edited August 21, 200817 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Oh, no! You misunderstood — I meant, she's losing control of stories. Those previews for the fall look dull.

Yeah, but this year has proved that being dull is a Griffith/Maria Bell staple.

Both of them need to go, at least IMO, but hopefully and likely, Griffith is out the door first.

Yeah, but this year has proved that being dull is a Griffith/Maria Bell staple.

Both of them need to go, at least IMO, but hopefully and likely, Griffith is out the door first.

Turns out — one more time — that that writing team sucks! And Hogan Sheffer sure isn't going to save matters. This is all so very frustrating: I want to join the group who is happy that Lynn Latham's material isn't airing anymore — thank God! — and that sees this as a big improvement (which it is), but I just can't. You are right — something is missing.

Edited August 22, 200817 yr by Sylph

This is SO frustrating. Why can't anyone just enjoy a show for what it is, instead of wanting it to be something it isn't? No matter how good the show gets, people will still complain about it. The show could be written by Shakespeare and directed by Steven Spielberg, and STILL there would be complaints.

A year ago, most viewers would have KILLED for the show to be what it is now. You'd think the LML fiasco would have taught viewers a lesson: be careful what you wish for.

My vote is for Griffith and Bell to both stay.

It took Maria six months — six very painful months — to come up with some sort of a story, which lasted... A week? Yeah, yeah, I know she was being re-written by Josh Griffith. But how much of an actual re-writing could he do? Probably the stories — if we can call them such — were her idea, but he changed the structure. The problem is — even with a good structure I don't think much would have changed.