OLTL: Michael Malone question

[EricMontreal22]

I think it looks hamfisted now (when AMC did a similar story with Kevin Sheffield under Broderick only 4 year slater it was handled so much better0 yet the Billy storyline was somethign he fought HARD for, got a lot of netowrk flack for (it was meant to be Joey) and *was* groundbreaking. At the time--yeah I was 12--but it played WAY better than it does as youtube clips--nto everything dates well and I think it's abit unfair to look at it nwo and saw it looks awful. It really moved a lot of people back then and many soap mags picked the AIDS quilt episodes as the best of the year.

[EricMontreal22]

TONS of people like him. the last tenure lessened that a LOT but I still think he has more fans than not. Sylph sometimes you seem to me like to make very either/or statements about people I think (I mean by that you like very "is he good or is he bad" opinions about Soap writers--someone didn't work on one show and you seem to think they never should work--I remember our Lemay argument where I said I thougth he sucked with his advice as an ABC consultant in the 90s and you thought that meant I thought he was a poor writer in the 70s...)

Anyway in this case the Malone thing isn't nearly that simple. I still don't think he's even as hated as JER tho maybe he divides people similar to how Reilly did (but part of that is many feel he was overated in his first era--I don't)

I think him reinstating the class thing is important (I wish Pratt would do that at AMC) as Agnes' soaps wer ebase don that. Homosexuality I don't htink could be seen as one of his major stories since he had one short term storyline for it in his firs OLTL run, nothing at AW, a C level story which was more just commentary on his second OLTL run (and I think a vetoed story to make Paul Cramer and CJ Roberts army Don't Ask Don't Tell lovers that never even started.

Likewise he's used rape a lot less than people like oh Megan McTavish or Irna Phillips...

[Vee]

The original line-up was Josh Griffith as HW and Michael Malone as "creative consultant." Frons had tried to get both back, only got Griffith, who said he wouldn't do it without Malone. MM became consultant, but within about two months or less was a co-HW. It all smacked of him; I think the more fantastical elements in that first spring and summer were totally him. Josh Griffith is a talented writer, but he was out of place at Y&R on both levels of employment, he's not good at that kind of show, and he fucked up at OLTL last time. Malone is very talented but left on his own, he goes crazy and does all sorts of stuff that is, frankly, a kind of deadly serious camp which is far more unintentionally funny, and far worse for the show's image on a whole, than what RC is doing now with intentional camp and comedy. Take Mitch in the sewers, Mitch using a soundalike actress to impersonate Viki and Dorian with Strasser and Slezak's voices badly dubbed in as she talks; Mitch with the diamond, Blair in the basement with the poison spikes closing in on her. All played totally serious, life and death. Same thing with the fall of 2003; Antonio is accused of the murder of Keri. Jessica has a nightmare about it, in which she is an antebellum princess and Antonio is an 18th century peasant on trial in Angel Square, being shot to death by "redcoat" soldiers led by redcoat general Daniel Colson. Played totally serious! It was ludicrous.

And then there was that whole thing on AW where he wrote that Bobby Reno got Vicky's dead husband Ryan's eyes. And was both a jet pilot and a doctor or something...

[EricMontreal22]

You mean Griffith was more into the fantastical? I'd prob agree although Malone started that weird mystical fertility tiki in his AW era without Griffith (similar to the Baja Diamond or whatever in a way). or did you mean that was Malone lol

Either way yeah it is really odd how he plays that camp--like you say seriously. And there wasn't much of a whiff of that eithe rin his fiction (I know) or hsi first period of OLTL (although Carlo and the Men of 21 after Griffith left was pretty awful in that direction--did he write Vicki bveing hypnotized to kill Kevin?--and he had some elements all along--even his very early story of Andrew Carpenter going to that made up middle eastern country to save Jake for Megan's death--but he managed ot make it more or less work).

As you say that though I see wha tyou mean about his type of "serious camp" perhaps workign well at DAYS. It is strange how different his eras felt.

[dc11786]

I believe some of "13 Bourbon St." was worked into Malone's stint on "Another World". I believe Lila and Shane's backstory were originally intended to be a part of Bourbon St.

Having only seen Malone's latest stint on "One Life to Live", I enjoyed the storylines ideas but I felt he rushed through them. I felt he focused on action over characterization. If he had allowed the story to play all it beats, his tenure would have been much smoother. Also, plots had a tendencies to change direction on the drop of a hat if they weren't dropped all together.

[miajere]

Malone's books are amazing. They have the feelings of a great classic, but are more modern than much of the stuff on soaps today. Dingley Falls- the first 5 pages you laugh alot- there's so much humor with so little effort. The characters are very much alive as if you were watching them on television.

I think about the show today and what we're seeing in terms of the characters- it seems everyone wants to get their hands on Malone's and Griffith's creations.

As for the worst- definitely Malone's last stay was hard to watch, but there was something he understood about storytelling that many other writers don't. He just has difficulty making it work for a 40 year soap. But when he first appeared on OLTL, I remember it being much like it is today- core focused, same stories, and yet completely disconnected from the vision of Agnes Nixon. When you read his interviews, it's obvious he wanted to get back to that.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Speaking on Malone's first stint at OLTL alone, it always felt a little too Afterschool Special-esque to me. It seemed like they blew through social issue after social issue for sake of doing so. It didn't feel organic to me, I guess Gottlieb had a big hand in that as well. However, by contrast, I LOVED the way AMC dealt with social issues during that same time. They felt better connected and more organic on AMC. Behr, McTavish (as much as it pains me to praise her), and Broderick knew how to better integrate their social issue storylines, and though AMC for the most part stayed true to its socially conscious identity, they didn't make the show one huge PSA, which I think OLTL became under Malone and Gottlieb.

[Sylph]

Y&RWorldTurner, your Malone hate shows.

You liked nothing of the man's work? Not even a tiny thing? Maybe not the stories, but the structure... Something.

[EricMontreal22]

Agnes was still a big part of AMC at the time too--to be fair AMC in the early 90s had alwasy been dealign well with social issues (even in the late 80s when some felt it lost some direction we had Cindy's AIDS story, the drunk driving etc), whereas OLTL hadn't prob since 1984 or 85 (if we count Niki's return). Malone did get a lot of leadership from Agnes too he's said--she seemed to be his main mentor guide.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned--and I don't remember as I started watching OLTL during the Billy Douglas story--but the first half year or so of Malone's run him and Goittlieb tried a new thing of having short term soap stories to get new viewers--one had movie star Craig Wasson coming in as a wife abuser involved with Vicki--hima nd his wife were written out when their story (6 weeks I thinkw as the average?) was finished. I suspect this was more Gottlieb's idea than Malone's and it was quickly abandoned as unsuccessful.

Y&R WOrld Turner, I respect your opinion, but I never saw these things as PSas to the extent you did. Yes I admit if youw atch some of the Billy Douglas storyline on yotuube now it seems overly educational in dialog and non subtle--but so would many other groundbreaking storylines dealing with social issues if we go back and watch them now (although I admit that only a few years later Broderick did it much better with Kevin Sheffield on AMC, a somewhat forgotten story now--but even Broderick in interviews I remember would mention the groundbreaking OLTL had done). Otherwise I'm not quite sure what all the PSAs were--the rape never felt like one to me, but like compelling tv. VIcki's real DID reasoning, the abuse, etc was heartwrenching to watch but again felt like it came out of the characters and drama.

But I know that for people who didn't like Malone's run at OLTL back in the 90s this is the common complaint--so it must be partly at least a difference of opinion between us and I can accept that I do think in his second tenure the attempts to add social storylines into the much more campy, gothic show he was watching fell flat because they weren't organic.

Anyway my main thought about Malone as a soap writer that can't be emphasized enough is even at his worse, he's better when writing with Josh Griffith--as he himself says in some of those interviews. I don't think this takes away from any of the man's immense talent.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I wonder if there are any interviews with Gottlieb in which she talks about her input into storylines and the overall creative direction of OLTL during that time period.

[EricMontreal22]

I'd liek to read those too. I do know she was a VERY hands on EP and some disliked that (Marlena D in her soap column on Malone at AW alluded to not liking Gottlieb at the time but now maybe her deserving more props)

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I heard A LOT of the OLTL cast HATED Gottlieb, I remember hearing a rumour about James DePaiva throwing a chair or something at her direction. Erika Slezak also doesn't appear to be very fond of her, though she weirdly adores Jill Farren Phelps.

[miajere]

Why does everyone pretend that everything Erika Slezak likes is golden???

[Y&RWorldTurner]

LOL! I have no idea, I personally find the woman overrated as an actress, she's good, but not THAT good.

[miajere]

She doesn't seem to give a rats arse about what her character gets involved with, and it seems anytime the writer's want to make something true- they make her say it.

"Todd is a good father."

"Todd is a bad father."

"Todd needs help."

"Todd will always worship the ground Blair walks on."