This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

Humbleness should rule the days and weeks ahead. As far as I'm concerned, we all won two nights ago. He received votes from every walk of life, from Democrats, Independents & Republicans. Eveyone voted for him and Senator McCain, so those who want to turn this into a "We beat you" spiel........

Completely have missed the damn point. And THAT, is the true shame.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Roman

I tell you something else we now do. We all go back to work.....

To gurantee our Gay & Lesbian brothers and sisters the right and freedom to live their lives as peaceful American citizens.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Roman

Jess & JP,

As I said before as far as gay rights we still have a long way to go in both parties.

yes a barrier was broken with Obama being elected and he has a lot of things to be thankful for that helped that to happen. As many of the pundits said his biggest help was the economy and people being so angry at Bush and the Republicans. But you look at polls right before the economy turned so bad. McCain was leading or very close. If the election was held then there would have been a different or closer turnout.

But in both parties the barriers have still not been broken. Many think that just because a person voted for Obama they were voting for his 100% beliefs. Many voted purely on the voice of change. It was someone different. Many voted because they liked his economy issues better. Some African Americans voted for him simply because he was black just like some folks voted against him simply because he was black. I say all that to simply say that a vote for Obama was not a 100% across the board affirmation of everythign he was saying.

Just as many Democrats voted for Prop 8 as voted for it. So many of the Democrats are just as homophobic as Repubicans are and vice versa. It is a barrier that is going to take a long time to break down.

It goes back to what I said before so many feel like it is being pushed on them and theirs and they will fight against. The same that many are talking about in this thread that they feel like the religious right push their beliefs on them - many of them feel like those type of things are being pushed on them. And they used their right as Americans to go to the polls and voted against it.

No civil rights issue is broken overnight - it takes years.

We as Americans have got to get out of our attitude of me and mine and my rights and develop an attitude of thinking of others. But we grow more and more selfish every year. Instead of the Christians saying well it is not bothering me that 2 gays over here are married that is their business - they don't. They worry about what it is doing to them and not about the rights of those 2 people. Non-christians didn't say well I don't have to bow my head and pray at a football game, I will let them have that. I just don't have to participate. No they had to put a stop to it.

The Jewish girl in New York didn't worry about the majority of students in her school who celebrated Christmas. She and her family worried about how it felt to her and her alone. And they fought it and now in that school and so many others they are not even allowed to exchange Christmas presents or even decorate for Christmas anymore.

Everyday someone's rights are taken away because of the rights of the few. Just like as I said here in Tennssee a smoker cannot even exercise their right to smoke in a smoking area even in their own workplaces anymore as all smoking areas in public places have been banned by the non-smokers.

We need to all realize that MY RIGHTS END AT MY FINGERTIPS AND QUIT TRYING TO INFRINGE THAT AREA TO TAKE UP SOMEONE ELSE'S RIGHTS TOO.

But it ain't gonna happen because we grow more and more selfish every single year.

I find this very sad. I was hoping you would say that people voting yes thought they were voting for the right for gays to marry. You are right it is hatred and bigotry. I do not know how people can be so mean.

I was genuinely surprised at Prop 8 passing in CA. Even the Govenator was against it, wasn't he? Here in FL, I had a feeling Prop 2 would pass because there was absolutely no ads against it airing on TV. Everything you saw was "vote Yes". And there are still quite a few "old south" counties in this state...so...

Humbleness should rule the days and weeks ahead. As far as I'm concerned, we all won two nights ago. He received votes from every walk of life, from Democrats, Independents & Republicans. Eveyone voted for him and Senator McCain, so those who want to turn this into a "We beat you" spiel........

Completely have missed the damn point. And THAT, is the true shame.

I tell you something else we now do. We all go back to work.....

To gurantee our Gay & Lesbian brothers and sisters the right and freedom to live their lives as peaceful American citizens.

Well said. All of us need to come together now and support the new President. He will need it.

I went to see Tina Turner last night here. Awesome show. She was very happy about our new President. She said (speaking to the audience) "You should be in a great mood. You have a new President and I'm with you tonight!" That woman is amazing.

A couple other things...

We were watching Nightline last night and they were at Howard University in DC the night of election. How inspiring it was to see the crowds reaction to Obama's win. The joy and hope instilled in these young people with this historic event brought tears to my eyes. How wonderful to be alive during this time, regardless of your political leanings, to realize that barriers for people of color are falling and we should all celebrate that.

One thing they reported that really got to me that I was not aware of....the White House was built on the back of slave labor. Now an African American will reside in that house. It's about time.

I hope that Obama's presidency will bring about the long-overdue healing of racial relationships.

I agree that we need to come together too, but it is a little late to call for that now. Not because anyone in this thread is saying it, but it is just hard for now the Dems or whoever supported Obama to expect a nation to come together and support Obama for the sake of the country when no one could come together and support the country under Bush or whoever.

The division in our country has been set up over the last 12 to 15 years creating a totally Partisan country where no one can come together and support one another again. It will take that many years of change and more to overcome that. The Republicans and Democrats have always fought but it got worse during the Clinton years and has just continued from then on.

No one are graceful losers anymore and no one are graceful winners and it all just plays into the animosity that both sides feel for one another. And if Obama and the politicians don't play up a Bipartisan unit together then it will never change. It is just like at one of America's most crucial times in the last few months with the bail out at stake people couldn't help but play the blame game and Nancy Pelosi was chief in running that choosing to take that time to blame Bush for everything.

Over the last 8 years the celebrities that everyone looks too for guidance have done nothing but work to call Bush names and even say if the Republicans win again they are leaving the country.

And then when the Dems win they all say now the whole country needs to pull together and forget the past and lets work together.

It don't happen that way. People don't forget months and years of name calling and the like overnight.

Well then, Steve, those of us who want to move on, will.

And those that want to continue to act like children.......feel free.

I agree but anything comes down to inflicting our beliefs on others. We all have things whether religious or non-religious that we believe to be right and we tend to vote for laws or whatever based on that set of beliefs whehter they be based on religion or just how we feel.

That is what makes me mad about all the arguments that so and so are inflicting their beliefs on someone else because that is what we all do with out beliefs in one sense. The religious right see it that the beliefs of others are being inflicted on their lives such as was talked about before many of them felt that Prop 8 was saying that it would be taught in school and that is what led them in part to not vote for it. They felt that by it being taught in school it was being inflicted on them and theirs.

Here in Tennessee I am not a smoker but I feel for the smokers here because the non-smokers have marched on the state legislature and made it against the law for a smoker to be able to smoke anywhere in the state except for bars or in their cars. There is not a restaurant or any other public place you can go to and smoke anymore. That is not right. If I want to smoke I should have that right to smoke. I will give that there should be a divided area so that it does not infring on others but now as a smoker their rights have been completely gone.

And look at what Barbara Mandrell did when she started pushing the seat belt law. She and her followers kept on until now it is regulated that you have to wear a seat belt. The philosophy was that they were doing it for safety of the individuals but it is still an infringement of one's beliefs being pushed on others.

Everyone pushes something on others in some way these days no matter what. I think we all pick on the Christian right and put them up there but the other side is often just as guilty.

And I agree that the Republicans have adopted more of the religious/moral laws but at the same time the Democrats totally abandoned any morality stances and thus instead of a 2 party system where many can feel they can go and vote on issues it has come down to a choice of morality against immorality and that is not right. That is the reason I hate both parties, and feel both have outlived their usefulness. And another reason I sent my message with my vote this time. 4 years ago I changed my registration to Independent and as long as both parties stay as they are I will never identify with either party. I am so tired of the fighting and the name calling and this party saying it is better than the other when they are both just as hypocritical as the other.

IMHO, comparing smoking or wearing seatbelts to gay marriage is like comparing apples to oranges. JMHO. Smoking and seat belts are public heath issues, aren't they? I do smoke occasionally, and am always aware of those that might not smoke and are concerned about second-hand issues. Wearing seat belts saves lives.

Gay marriage, or gay rights, is not a public health issue, nor is it something you choose like smoking or wearing seatbelts. And gay marriage or gay rights has never caused anyone else's death - that's not involved in the union between two people who love each other. If you smoke, the probabilities are that you will get cancer and die from it. If you don't wear a seatbelt and are involved in serious accident, you could die as well. How does gay marriage compare to that? Perhaps some evangelical somewhere may have a heart attack seeing two men kissing, but it's really not the same thing.

I agree that we need to come together too, but it is a little late to call for that now. Not because anyone in this thread is saying it, but it is just hard for now the Dems or whoever supported Obama to expect a nation to come together and support Obama for the sake of the country when no one could come together and support the country under Bush or whoever.

The division in our country has been set up over the last 12 to 15 years creating a totally Partisan country where no one can come together and support one another again. It will take that many years of change and more to overcome that. The Republicans and Democrats have always fought but it got worse during the Clinton years and has just continued from then on.

No one are graceful losers anymore and no one are graceful winners and it all just plays into the animosity that both sides feel for one another. And if Obama and the politicians don't play up a Bipartisan unit together then it will never change. It is just like at one of America's most crucial times in the last few months with the bail out at stake people couldn't help but play the blame game and Nancy Pelosi was chief in running that choosing to take that time to blame Bush for everything.

Over the last 8 years the celebrities that everyone looks too for guidance have done nothing but work to call Bush names and even say if the Republicans win again they are leaving the country.

And then when the Dems win they all say now the whole country needs to pull together and forget the past and lets work together.

It don't happen that way. People don't forget months and years of name calling and the like overnight.

Pardon me, and this is the last time I will address this "Dems didn't come together for Bush" argument.

First of all, both party supporters in this thread sometimes got ugly. The Dems did not have a corner on the market in that arena. Secondly, I didn't vote for Bush in 2000 or 2004, but supported him after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. However, the Republican party squandered that bipartisanship when they launched the "war" in Iraq and started using gay marriage as a wedge issue to divide the country.

If you can name an instance wherein Clinton (the last Dem in the White House) used wedge issues to divide the electorate, please educate me. I simply can't recall an administration so divisive as the one that's fixin to leave the Oval Office in January.

And it is in the best interest in the country to come together. The minority speaker did as much as Pelosi in railroading the bailout package. As Roman said, those that want the country to succeed will put the past behind them and come together as a nation to solve our problems.

I was just citing different issues. It won't matter and the attitudes taken here just prove it. No one can come together because even when you just try to discuss it and point out two sides of things you have people come on and try to say you are being petty or you are citing stupid issues. I will just keep my thoughts to myself from now on because obviously I am too petty and too stupid to even have an opinion.

Over and out.

Well then, Steve, those of us who want to move on, will.

And those that want to continue to act like children.......feel free.

Whatever

I think there is genuine excitement in the country and the world. There will be anger and there will be people who disagree with what the new president will do. That's fine. This country was built on protest and it was built on well-meaning people arguing their differences. It will happen. That does not mean we are a divided country. It means we are a democracy.

I don't think people look to celebrities for leadership. I do think celebrities have the same right to criticize their president as anyone else. I also think people who voted for McCain did so because they disagreed with Obama's policies and agreed with McCain's. That is fine and I don't expect them to all of a sudden say, OK you won, we quit. There will also be ignorant people who call him socialist, baby killer or whatever. That are ignorant people in both parties. They do not represent the majority.

As far as gay rights, I do think the Republicans are less open to it then dems. Sorry, it is just the truth. There is no getting around the fact that Karl Rove used gay rights, and George W. Bush used gay rights, as a campaign issue. I think that is no different than segregationist using civil rights as a campaign issue. It's appealing to people's prejudices. It's not the entire Republican Party. In fact, it's not even the majority. But the Republican Party has lost touch with it's true base -- fiscal conservatives. After this election, I believe the Republicans will recognize the base is economic conservatives and I think Democrats are realizing that their base is not social liberals either.

I find this very sad. I was hoping you would say that people voting yes thought they were voting for the right for gays to marry. You are right it is hatred and bigotry. I do not know how people can be so mean.

One of the minuses of being pages behind in a thread is that I see a post to which I want to respond and I could keep reading and maybe see other responses to it but then I might lose track of the initial post. I haven't finished reading through but I do want to respond to this because I disagree with you about it being about people being mean....though I understand why you see it that way.

I don't think that every person that supported Prop 8 did it with the thought of denying a person's opportunity. I think some of the people did it as a way of preserving what they see as a tradition. Yes, in fighting for their beliefs they deny another person of theirs but it's to me a no win battle in which you can't satisfy everyone.....and I guess that's the way life is.

I have friends who voted for it and friends who voted against it. Most of my friends who voted for it did so based on their moral convictions and if you don't see things as they do then it's easy to stand on the outside and criticize them but I didn't hear one of them express that they wanted to hurt someone Nor are any of them malicious people or they simply wouldn't be friends of mine. They just very strongly believe that the Bible speaks of marriage between a man and a woman and to do otherwise is to abandon their beliefs.

My comment on the whole infringement of rights regarding smoking and seat belts is that I agree that an adult should have the right to smoke or drive without a seat belt if they so choose. I think the laws should be applicable to minors or mentally incapacitated people when it comes to those things. The flip side of this though is what happens when that adult who chooses not to wear his/her seat belt gets into an accident or the smoker develops lung cancer. In the end, who pays the medical expenses to keep that individual or those individuals alive? Should people who willingly and knowingly engage in risky behavior be made to pay higher premiums to offset the costs that may result from that behavior?

When a person does something that only has an effect on himself then there's not much of an issue. The problem is when a person directly or an indirectly affects other people. Some people might see a person who knowingly infects someone with AIDS as malicious and someone who smokes regularly around an asthmatic child as cruel.

I was just citing different issues. It won't matter and the attitudes taken here just prove it. No one can come together because even when you just try to discuss it and point out two sides of things you have people come on and try to say you are being petty or you are citing stupid issues. I will just keep my thoughts to myself from now on because obviously I am too petty and too stupid to even have an opinion.

Over and out.

Whatever

Did I act rude towards you?

No.

No wonder I don't take anything you say seriously.

Oh, and could you do me a favor?

Noone in this thread came off rudely, shoving "We Won!" crap in people's faces. Don't paint us with the same brush you are painting others with.

Thank you. Over and out.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Roman

Prop 8 sucks.

Time to organize.

They have finally called North Carolina for Obama! LOL.

I was just citing different issues. It won't matter and the attitudes taken here just prove it. No one can come together because even when you just try to discuss it and point out two sides of things you have people come on and try to say you are being petty or you are citing stupid issues. I will just keep my thoughts to myself from now on because obviously I am too petty and too stupid to even have an opinion.

I don't think that you brought up petty and silly issues. I think that some of us have different perspectives on things but as far as I'm concerned, you brought up some thought provoking issues and I like that you pointed out two sides of certain issues. It's entirely fair to say that if you and I disagree over a specific thing that if you win then I get left out in the cold and that we were both being selfish. One of us prevails and the other is forced to live with it. I think the struggle may be never ending because there is always going to be a point of contention and one day a person might wake up and discover she's given away much of what she held sacred just to make other people happy and now she's not.

You make some great points about the two party system. I think there can be as many parties as people can imagine but the battle is going to remain the same because our society promotes competition. People who don't want to be in the game stand on the sidelines for the most part or sometimes they get swept into it.

I wouldn't go as far as to compare Bush with Obama because even though I have issues with the Democrats, I think that Democrats are more conciliatory as a party than the Republicans are. Essentially bi-partisanship to most Republicans means that they are going to get the Democrats to vote their way. I think the Democrats do try to sincerely compromise. Sure there are exceptions on both sides but that's my general view.

Obama is symbolic in some ways and he's very much a product of a youth movement which is not interested in party squabbles or labels and his obligation to them will most likely override the old politics game. Not everyone in Congress will jump on board but the people who fight against it will have a harder time justifying it. It'll be a bit of a struggle but I think some attitudes will change and any bit of progress is better than none at all.