Members Roman Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 As far as Lieberman, I don't know. He made his choice awhile ago, and if they were going to do something, it should have been done then. To do it now makes the Dem. leadership, IMO, look rather childish and petty. Like some BS on the schoolyard, and now they won't Joe play with them anymore. To hell with it. Let him stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 See, i think you are perfect to debate it because YOU are being discriminated against. YOU are being told you are not as good as stright people. YOU are bind told that because you happen to have fallen in love with another male you do not matter and you do not have the same rights as others. perfectly said. I agree. Even more than that religious belief. Now i myself am very close to many religious people. One of my best friends dad works at a church. But almost all of my friends see that this has NOTHING to do with religious anything or kids ins chool. The president of the school board did a commercail stating that marriage is not and should not be taugh ins chool. That using kids in eys on 8 ad's stating that they will learn about being gay ins chool is wrong and not true. This prop was about one thing, and one thing only. Hate. word. I agree. However i do think you can compare civil rights to womans rights to gay rights to any other mass hatred or less rights for a group of people just because of things such as gender, race, who they love, etc... There are people who are both black AND gay! Maybe thats shocking to a few people, but i know a few personally. Both male and female. There are also young people who are gay that are also every other race. lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg's GL Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Wales, that was awesome. In typical hilarious fashion, the guys at South Park show us extremes on both sides of the fence! "Everything's different now!!!" and "We're all gonna die!!!!" I especially liked the guy telling off his boss! "You fuckin ass f.uck!" Too funny. Thanks for bringing some laughter to my morning. Thanks, Brian. I'm glad we're friends too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Somethimes when people are fighting for what they believe in they may recognize that it's going to cost someone else but they may feel the sacrifice to the other(s) is worth it. Sometimes they are not thinking of anyone else at all. More often than not, the consequences are not thought out and it is harder to imagine how someone else may feel, if you don't understand certain things about them in the first place. I don't think the state constitution needs to be changed. I think if people are concerned about what's going to be taught in schools about marriage then they ought to address that specifically and if they are afraid that churches will be sanctioned, then there needs to be provisions that explicitly address that. All the finger pointing and name calling isn't going to fix anything and will only make matters worse. There are reports that churches have been vandalized because of support for Prop 8 and I don't think that's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 So what you're saying is that there should not be a woman anywhere in this country standing in the way of anyone's rights because of the discrimination that women have faced? I want to be sure that I'm following the logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Thanks for saying that because sometimes I read things that lead me to believe that black people are all the same person with the same look, personality and tastes. YW. I'm glad you liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GregNYC Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Let's just agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Roman Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Brutally honestly, that just might be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bandbfan Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 Not necessarily. I just think it's more hypocritical when you've been on that side. Very pot and kettle. My civil rights issue is more important than yours....ehhh. I know people do base the gay issue on religion, but can't the discrimination issue of women be traced back to religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg's GL Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 IMHO, I don't believe that there's any one civil rights issue more important than the other. When one group of people are marginalized based on what ever reason - skin color, sexual orientation, gender, hair color - it's not the "American" way as written in our constitution. That being said, I don't think one's own civil rights struggle should incline them to support every other civil rights struggle that may come along. There are gay people that are prejudice against blacks. There are black people that think homosexuality is morally wrong. There are women that do not agree with gay marriage. That's just the way it is. Furthermore, while the gay rights struggle has been long and tough, going back to 1969 and the Stonewall riots in NYC, it really does not compare to the stuggle our African American friends have been subjected to for over 200 years. I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but if there's ANY civil rights struggle that IMO everyone should be involved in, it's racial unity and justice. There's simply no excuse for every American to not support equality for our black brothers and sisters. I am very disappointed in the recent passage of Prop 8 and Prop 2. I have nothing else to add to the discussion besides what I've said up until this point. I see the conservatives are ganging up on Obama's choice for Chief of Staff. I can't help but wonder that they would have had the same reaction had Obama chosen Jesus Christ himself of Chief of Staff. Hmmm. On a personal note, I wanted to add to what Roman and UCLAN said a few pages back in this thread. It's meant alot to me to get in here and share my thoughts and opinions with y'all. Sometimes we agreed, others we didn't. But I really feel that I've met some great online SON friends through this forum. Y'all are the best. I've enjoyed chatting with you all and look forward to even more debates in the future. Roman Wales Jess UCLAN Brian I dig y'all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Toups Posted November 7, 2008 Administrator Share Posted November 7, 2008 Why is Obama speaking in full sentences? I'm not used to a President speaking like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Wales2004 Posted November 7, 2008 Members Share Posted November 7, 2008 I brought up sexism to make the point that not every woman is going to feel the same way about discrimination nor does every woman feel that she's been the victim of sexism. Your response seemed to be based on the assumption that everybody in whatever category they have been lumped has experienced the same discrimination and I don't believe that's the case. Some opinions about the role of women in society has religious roots but there are people who hold these views that don't believe in religion at all and don't hold philosophies based in religion so it's a lot more than that. I don't think that it's always an instance of someone thinking their civil rights issue is more important than the next person. Isn't any individual's issue going to be more important to that person than the next person's issue? What happens to the person that has more than one issue because you still seem to be making the assumption that every individual with civil rights issues can only have one issue at a time, which is totally false. Do you consider that a black lesbian might have to face three forms of discrimination? Do you think she should prioritize them or should she just let society lump her in the category of black people and call it a day? Say she has a brother and they're both experiencing racial discrimination but her brother is also treating her poorly because she's gay.....and the guy down the road keeps trying to put his hands all over her because he thinks she's a helpless woman.......consider that because I think that once people get placed into the category of being black, that's all they are. I've never experienced any discrimination in my entire life so I don't know how it feels and I can't pretend to know what it's like. I pay attention to how the media discussed the polls and when they referred to minorities they were all one category...no one cared whether they were men or women, college educated or not, blue collar or not.....they were just black or hispanic. The only differentiation I heard made between hispanics was to point out that Cubans trended Republican and that Puerto Ricans had made their way into Florida. Asians didn't even get a mention. There are all these Americans that get lumped into one blob based on race and ethnicity and told that they are all supposed to feel the same way about anything that happens by people who still don't understand that above all they are human beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Greg's GL Posted November 8, 2008 Members Share Posted November 8, 2008 Wales, this entire post, but particularly the portion I highlighted, is why you are one of the most important posters in this thread, IMHO. You have made some very important and very legitimate points in your response, all of which are thought-provoking. Although I have prioritized civil rights issues prior to this post, this makes me very introspective of these matters. And now I'm curious about an issue raised on Lou Dobbs tonight. would Sarah Palin now be considered the front-runner for the Republican party for 2012? They are claiming that she is polling better than Romney and Huckabee combined. Hmmm. She may be popular with what is now considered the Republican "base", but can she attract independents? Should the Republican party now regroup and embrace their traditional base, the fiscal conservatives? Or should the party continue to cater to Evangelicals? My impression of you, Wales, is that you're very fair in these matters. I would like to know your thoughts on the future of the party. And my good friend Brian, what do you think about a possible SP run for president? Anyone else have some thoughts on this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bandbfan Posted November 8, 2008 Members Share Posted November 8, 2008 I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying when I'm not trying to put that much depth in it. I'm just pointing out the irony, much like how I pointed out the irony in the Christian protestant religion trying to dictate how Americans live when they didn't like it when Catholics tried to dictate their lives 500 years ago. I find a similarity, in this case, with protestants and those who were once discriminated against but now are "accepted." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SnCCorinthos4ever Posted November 8, 2008 Members Share Posted November 8, 2008 This is a picture that was drawn by one of our cartoonists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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