Thats just it Danni...I do not feel I am wrong or right. I said I think both sides need to realize they are neither right or wrong and that people need to talk and come together on issues and not stay ONE sided.

As you can see by my comments, I am not asking that the ruling be overturned, I said that I think a different approach needs to be taken.

You only see things ONE way...YOUR way. I see both issues and want a compromise.

How am I wrong? I am not. You are for being one sided..on every single issue you talk about..which is POOR ME.

Not a good way to get things accomplished in my opinion.

Open your mind and your views and you might actually get somewhere and be taken seriously instead of the angry person you portry yourself to be.

I am not saying I am right or wrong I said I would like to see both sides shut the hell up and do something constructive. But you sure like to accuse me of thinking otherwise.

Thankfully, there are more and more organizations popping up in the country that are making otherwise selfish women realize they HAVE to do just that.

You better believe that if a woman doesn't want to raise a child, she's going to find some way to make it happen. You can't force a woman to be a mother, any more than you can force a man to be a father.

And I'm sorry, Danni, but it's illogical to think that one person is going to adopt all the unexpected children in the world. There must be more practical solutions than that.

That's my point. The very people who are all about "What about the lives of the babies? Why don't you give it up for adoption?" are not adopting these kids. They're not stepping up to the plate to help the kids who are already here. Instead, most of these kids get thrown into a system where they go from foster home to foster home, have parents who only adopt kids just for the checks they receive while abuse occurs. Better yet, most of the kids with developmental disabilities do not get the proper care they need and are left to fend for themselves when they're 18. What are they doing about that? Nothing. And you best believe that if it was their teenage child suddenly finding themselves pregnant, they're not above going to get that abortion done either. They just don't want anyone else, mostly the lower class, having access to it.

And about the safe sex programs. I agree that abstinence only probably isn't the best approach. But you can't mislabel "safer" sex because that's just what it is. safe-R. Not 100 percent. So we're not really helping our kids, in my opinion, if we teach them that a condom that is 85 percent reliable is their ticket to happy sex without risks.

A condom has a MUCH higher reliability rate if you know how to put it on correctly. The 85% schpeel is what abstinence-only supporters use in their justification for no sex education. Of course they don't tell you that that rate is there assuming you're an insipid idiot who can't put on a condom the right way.

And let's cut to THE REAL heart of the matter. Yes, we are people with passions. (I refuse to say we're "animals" since we are FAR better than animals). But that doesn't mean we can't keep our passions in check. The real problem, if you want to talk about STIs, is the idiots who use sex recreationally and screw a different person every night, maybe more than one in a night, maybe three in a night, maybe FOUR in a night -- all in the name of same perceived "sexual liberty" that really has made them a slave to their passions -- and MUCH more likely to catch and spread STIs.

Of course we can keep our passions in check. It's really not that hard. That being said, why can't we be sexually liberated? Why must we view something that is completely biological and healthy in nature as something dirty and to be detested? Honestly, I think it's viewpoints like that is the reason why we have such high teen pregnancy rates and high STIs. Repression is only going to fuel curiosity and rebellion. Then of course with the lack of education of safer practices, people are just merely going to have unprotected sex.

BTW, we are animals. We belong to kingdom animalia in the biological world.

Thats just it Danni...I do not feel I am wrong or right. I said I think both sides need to realize they are neither right or wrong and that people need to talk and come together on issues and not stay ONE sided.

Well, this is going to be an issue that no one's going to come together on mostly because of gender, class, political, and religious dynamics.

Completely OT for a minute, but Danni, you articulate everything I want to say but much better. Thanks. You rock

Danni said:

"And you best believe that if it was their teenage child suddenly finding themselves pregnant, they're not above going to get that abortion done either. They just don't want anyone else, mostly the lower class, having access to it.

"

But that's not true of everybody. And I can promise you that none of my pro-life acquaintances would ever have an abortion or support their child having one. Maybe you know a couple of pro-life hypocrites out there where that is the case -- but that's what they are: hypocrites, because they are the exception to the rule.

"Of course we can keep our passions in check. It's really not that hard. That being said, why can't we be sexually liberated? Why must we view something that is completely biological and healthy in nature as something dirty and to be detested? Honestly, I think it's viewpoints like that is the reason why we have such high teen pregnancy rates and high STIs. Repression is only going to fuel curiosity and rebellion. Then of course with the lack of education of safer practices, people are just merely going to have unprotected sex."

hmm...

Someone who is pro-life, tell me how to solve this? If we make abortion illegal, it won't stop. Then we;ll have mothers getting infections, some dying. We'll have babies being born and murdered because we forced that woman to bare that child. Those that are born and given up go into an already full, crowded, often inefficent, foster care system, with no guarnteeded family, ever. So lets see what we get with abortion illegal; Dead mothers. Dead babies, murdered after birth. Babies who spend the rest of their lives floating from foster home to foster home. Sounds copaestic and wonderful to me.

Edited February 25, 200718 yr by Kylie

But that's not true of everybody. And I can promise you that none of my pro-life acquaintances would ever have an abortion or support their child having one. Maybe you know a couple of pro-life hypocrites out there where that is the case -- but that's what they are: hypocrites, because they are the exception to the rule.

Oh, believe me. The scenario would be different if it was their child suddenly coming up to them with an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy. It's not about people I know, but there are actual stories about women who will protest in front of a clinic, show up at said clinic with their kid so that they can have an abortion performed, then go about protesting again the next day.

Oh, believe me. The scenario would be different if it was their child suddenly coming up to them with an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy. It's not about people I know, but there are actual stories about women who will protest in front of a clinic, show up at said clinic with their kid so that they can have an abortion performed, then go about protesting again the next day.

Yes, but that may be all that they are -- stories. One woman who left the abortion business wrote a book. In one chapter, she wrote about how when the media came to take pictures of a protest, she and her co-workers would duck and cover and cower as if to suggest pro-lifers were being violent. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, sometimes, but the whole point is that those in the business can and have used those few bad seeds to proliferate that stereotype of violent pro-lifers. To do that, they put up the imagery that they were afraid or feared attacks that could come at any moment from otherwise peaceful people.

So stories are just stories.

And again, I don't care how many people you saw or read about who protested one day and then came back for abortions themselves-- that still makes them hypocrites. There's genuine belief and there's hypocrisy, and you're referring to the hypocrites. I'm not sure what point I'm even trying to make in saying that. I just wanted to clear that up.

As for the sexual repression thing, I said "hmm" without any better response because I actually agree that it can happen. It happened to me! lol. So I can't quite say anything to that...without being a hypocrite anyway. In my heart of hearts, though, I do think people would be a lot happier without all the baggage that comes from being sexually liberated.

Someone who is pro-life, tell me how to solve this? If we make abortion illegal, it won't stop. Then we;ll have mothers getting infections, some dying. We'll have babies being born and murdered because we forced that woman to bare that child. Those that are born and given up go into an already full, crowded, often inefficent, foster care system, with no guarnteeded family, ever. So lets see what we get with abortion illegal; Dead mothers. Dead babies, murdered after birth. Babies who spend the rest of their lives floating from foster home to foster home. Sounds copaestic and wonderful to me.

Well, I wouldn't have a picnic knowing that millions of innocent babies are mutilated, burned and sucked out of their mother's bodies. The most vulnerable of our human race. There has to be a better way and 2) people should have more of a respect for human life are the only ways I know to answer your question.

Well, I wouldn't have a picnic knowing that millions of innocent babies are mutilated, burned and sucked out of their mother's bodies. The most vulnerable of our human race. There has to be a better way and 2) people should have more of a respect for human life are the only ways I know to answer your question.

You're talking in circles. You want abortion to be illegal, okay, so then what else? You make it illegal and then what? That's what you're not saying. What do you with the woman you're forcing to have their babies? What do you do with the ones that aren't murdered after birth, and are put into foster care? What do you do to fix the foster care system to accomedate all these babies? You can't just scream for abortion to be made illegal and think it's that easy.

You're talking in circles. You want abortion to be illegal, okay, so then what else? You make it illegal and then what? That's what you're not saying. What do you with the woman you're forcing to have their babies? What do you do with the ones that aren't murdered after birth, and are put into foster care? What do you do to fix the foster care system to accomedate all these babies? You can't just scream for abortion to be made illegal and think it's that easy.

Well, you're right. I'M not offering solutions. Frankly, I'm not a politican, so that's not my job.

I just support the belief that our elected officials can 'figure something out.' It's a "We'll cross that bridge when we get there" sort of thing.

That's why they're elected, to figure out what solutions there are, given the circumstances.

I have my own job, which, thank God, doesn't require me to make those kinds of decisions and research those kinds of issues.

I'm sorry, but I think that's a cop out. Abortion must be illegal. Period. But who cares what they do after that, that's not my problem. Why is that? Why is your and the government's problem with what I do with my baby? But when it comes to fixing the problem, whatever as long as abortion is illegal. That's like talking out your (not you in particular, pro-lifers) ass, IMO. You want this so badly, but you're not willing to help figure out a better solution.

Edited February 25, 200718 yr by Kylie

As for the sexual repression thing, I said "hmm" without any better response because I actually agree that it can happen. It happened to me! lol. So I can't quite say anything to that...without being a hypocrite anyway. In my heart of hearts, though, I do think people would be a lot happier without all the baggage that comes from being sexually liberated.

Unfortunately, you're misconstruing what "sexual liberation" is. It's not about, "Whee, let's go bang any and everything that moves". It's about being comfortable in the fact that we are sexual beings. It's about the fact that sex is natural. It's a biological instinct we have. Our reason for living at the VERY basic level is to pass our genes before kicking the bucket. We do that through sex. Our culture is based on repression, oppression, and fear. Why shouldn't we try to eliminate that?

Your personal issues are your own. I have a view on them based on what you have posted here, but that's something that's a whole other can of worms that I won't discuss on such a public forum.

(I refuse to say we're "animals" since we are FAR better than animals).

We are? I think animals usually have much more common sense than humans do.

This is just another reason why the political system is flawed in the US.

As someone who doesn't necessarily agree with abortion, but supports a woman's right to choose, I think that these politicians need to quit talking out of their asses. If they think catering to the pro-life crowd is gonna get them elected they are wrong.

I am so sick and [!@#$%^&*] tired of other people's morals and sense of believes being forced down my throat during campaign season. Abortions need to be allowed in this country because if they aren't then those considering it will go to more extremes to terminate their pregnancies.