JSF you're not answering the biggest question that we're asking: How is making it illegal going to stop it?

There is THOUSANDS of years of history behind the practice. Thousands. It's been legal, illegal, and lots of things in between, but it has NEVER stopped. So how do you think now is different?

You can't make a woman want a baby. You can make her have it (if you and our government get their way) but you can not make her want it. And if she doesn't want it, she's not going to raise it. And most woman who are that desperate are going to dump the baby. Leave it for dead, maybe kill it themselves. That's the answer? Make them have the babies, only for them to abandon, kill them? Isn't it all the same?

Umm, no women won't go to Mexico. There has always been illegal clinics in the U.S. that will do the procedure. And you're siting here preeching the value of life, but you don't care that many woman could and probably would die from having illegal abortions. Do they deserve it, is that what you're saying? That seems just as BAD as you say abortions are.

I don't believe that "most" women would kill it themselves or leave it for dead. I do believe those who are "desperate" would. And only an emotionally or mentally unstable woman would do that, I believe, which would be a minority compared to the numbers now, which, while decreasing, aren't where they should be, since Planned Parenthood NARAL continue their campaigns to make abortion seem empowering and even something to be proud of. (Again, I cringe at the "I had an abortion!" T-shirts.)

Kylie, you asked if they deserve it, and don't think it's as bad as abortion to say, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Abortions are bad because they pit woman against child, and play with human nature in a way that diminishes the value of human life while, at the same time, teaches people that they don't REALLY have to pay for their actions. Got pregnant? Get rid of it. Don't even need birth control, just get an abortion if you don't have some right now and you're hot to trot!

Bree already showed that most women have abortions as birth control. So, yes, I'm saying it. In the ideal world that I described, that IS the answer. If you choose to 'do the crime,' expect to 'do the time,' whatever consequence that means.

That, unlike abortion, actually teaches some responsibility.

Yes, you're right. But the difference is, if abortion is a crime, then the woman is taking that risk. She chooses her own fate. And I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for someone who would not only break the law but kill her innocent, living child. There's a better way.

I do believe, however, that the number of abortion would decline further, due to the fear of becoming pregnant or the fear of having to resort to the back alley measure. Or just the fear of being a criminal. Only the lowest of the low, and mentally unstable or emotionally unstable, would seriously kill their own child and risk personal harm. Of course, I say that now but look at all the heartless abortion "doctors" who suck out fetuses every day like their doing liposuction.

Isn't that a contridiction then? It's a life a life? So you can't abort a baby, but it's okay to let a mother die because she didn't want that baby? Seems like that's the pot calling the kettle black.

We had it illegal at one time. The numbers were no lower or higher now then they were. And that's just the abortions that were reported. If a woman wants an abortion she's going to have one, illegal or not, fear of no fear. When you're that desperate, that unable, to have you'll do whatever you have to do to get rid of it. This is the same arguement that is we don't teach our youth about sex, and jsut don't mention it, they won't do it. The fear of getting arrested (if it's like an 18 year old and 17 year old) getting pregnant, getting an STD is there now, and it's not doing anything.

Edited February 22, 200718 yr by Kylie

I don't believe that "most" women would kill it themselves or leave it for dead. I do believe those who are "desperate" would. And only an emotionally or mentally unstable woman would do that, I believe, which would be a minority compared to the numbers now, which, while decreasing, aren't where they should be, since Planned Parenthood NARAL continue their campaigns to make abortion seem empowering and even something to be proud of. (Again, I cringe at the "I had an abortion!" T-shirts.)

Kylie, you asked if they deserve it, and don't think it's as bad as abortion to say, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Abortions are bad because they pit woman against child, and play with human nature in a way that diminishes the value of human life while, at the same time, teaches people that they don't REALLY have to pay for their actions. Got pregnant? Get rid of it. Don't even need birth control, just get an abortion if you don't have some right now and you're hot to trot!

Bree already showed that most women have abortions as birth control. So, yes, I'm saying it. In the ideal world that I described, that IS the answer. If you choose to 'do the crime,' expect to 'do the time,' whatever consequence that means.

That, unlike abortion, actually teaches some responsibility.

That is a contridiction. That's saying that one life is ranked higher then another. A woman can die to have an abortion and she deserves it, but a baby is someone more valuable, and can not have it's life ended no matter what. That's a total contridiction.

And no, not emotionally unstable women, or mentally unstable women would go to these lenghts to have abortions. I've met college kids who are just a year or a semester away from their degrees, smart, rations woman, who end up pregant (oh and this might shock you, BOTH that I'm speaking of got pregnant using condoms) and are so unable, or uncapable of being mothers they they would go to these lengths. They're not crazy, or emotionally unbalanced. They're logical and rational.

someof u talk about the women who have abortions as some cray desprate crackwhore who doesnt know up from down. seariously? come on now!!

the mentaly unstable? no. im sorry. maybe its just cuz i have grown up in this era or that i have had friends who have had abortions and been there with them. one of my friends, when she was 16, thought she was in love and had sex. next day got dumped. a month later shes late. 2 weeks after that she finds out shes prego. now here she is, 16 years old, only slept with one guy she had been dating for 3 years, but shes still in high school, doesnt know who she is and isnt ready to take care of herself in this cold world, let alone a baby. so she looked at it all and debated and asked for help and advice and decided to get an abortion. and i for one support that choice 100%. she did what was right for her. and no it wasnt selfish, selfish would abeen having the baby then not being able to take care of it because she would be to ashamed of what she wanted to fo in having an abortion.

Abortion isnt only something we should have, but need not only in the usa but in the world. look at all the por starving sick dying childern already out there. u say ur pro-life, but what about those kids? what about there life? why bring more unwanted childern into the world?

and if you seariously think making it a crime would stop it, ur wrong. if a women wants an abortion, shes gonna have on. it will ALWAYS be an option, legal or not. and i do belive making it a crime would result in more dumpster babies.

Isn't that a contridiction then? It's a life a life? So you can't abort a baby, but it's okay to let a mother die because she didn't want that baby? Seems like that's the pot calling the kettle black.

We had it illegal at one time. The numbers were no lower or higher now then they were. And that's just the abortions that were reported. If a woman wants an abortion she's going to have one, illegal or not, fear of no fear. When you're that desperate, that unable, to have you'll do whatever you have to do to get rid of it. This is the same arguement that is we don't teach our youth about sex, and jsut don't mention it, they won't do it. The fear of getting arrested (if it's like an 18 year old and 17 year old) getting pregnant, getting an STD is there now, and it's not doing anything.

Well, you're right, a life is a life is a life. The woman's life is certainly precious. The goal of this pro-life movement is not to demean or diminish her natural rights, particularly that of life. But I disagree that it's the pot calling the kettle black because when abortion becomes illegal, it is then the woman's own fault, if she dies, because she's risking her own life. She's breaking the law. In abortion, the child never has his or her choice, and that's why people, pro-lifers, must speak up for them. They can't make such a decision or express their desire to live.

Yes, if a woman wants an abortion, she's going to have one, but that doesn't mean we should enable her. If a person wants to steal or kill, they're going to do both, but the current laws do not enable those criminals. Why should abortion be any different?

That is a contridiction. That's saying that one life is ranked higher then another. A woman can die to have an abortion and she deserves it, but a baby is someone more valuable, and can not have it's life ended no matter what. That's a total contridiction.

And no, not emotionally unstable women, or mentally unstable women would go to these lenghts to have abortions. I've met college kids who are just a year or a semester away from their degrees, smart, rations woman, who end up pregant (oh and this might shock you, BOTH that I'm speaking of got pregnant using condoms) and are so unable, or uncapable of being mothers they they would go to these lengths. They're not crazy, or emotionally unbalanced. They're logical and rational.

I don't see the contradiction because in illegal abortion, she's choosing to commit a crime. So yes, she deserves to pay whatever consequences are associated with that action. It's not putting the child above her, it's just her breaking the law.

I say that, because in a perfect world, most people would be pro-life and recognize that abortion is inhumane and undignified, and it would be outlawed. Thus, there would be no keeping score. It would just be known, as it is with killing outside the womb, that it's wrong. Always. So there's no keeping score of whose rights are being given more weight.

As for the last comment, I really find it hard to believe or label women that would would kill their own children with a coathanger or whatever contraption they choose as being stable. That's defying one of the most recognized symbols of nature, order and peace: mother and child. I do believe, however, that women can be so desensitized by so much of the "positive" abortion propaganda and "clump of cells" rhetoric that they can be brainwashed to believe it's okay to take such extreme measures.

That's why, in a perfect world again, fetal development and even the importance of respect for human life, would be taught in schools. Just like killing and gangs and violence are frowned upon and taught against, so should abortion.

These supposedly intelligent, rational women may learn a thing or two.

someof u talk about the women who have abortions as some cray desprate crackwhore who doesnt know up from down. seariously? come on now!!

the mentaly unstable? no. im sorry. maybe its just cuz i have grown up in this era or that i have had friends who have had abortions and been there with them. one of my friends, when she was 16, thought she was in love and had sex. next day got dumped. a month later shes late. 2 weeks after that she finds out shes prego. now here she is, 16 years old, only slept with one guy she had been dating for 3 years, but shes still in high school, doesnt know who she is and isnt ready to take care of herself in this cold world, let alone a baby. so she looked at it all and debated and asked for help and advice and decided to get an abortion. and i for one support that choice 100%. she did what was right for her. and no it wasnt selfish, selfish would abeen having the baby then not being able to take care of it because she would be to ashamed of what she wanted to fo in having an abortion.

Abortion isnt only something we should have, but need not only in the usa but in the world. look at all the por starving sick dying childern already out there. u say ur pro-life, but what about those kids? what about there life? why bring more unwanted childern into the world?

and if you seariously think making it a crime would stop it, ur wrong. if a women wants an abortion, shes gonna have on. it will ALWAYS be an option, legal or not. and i do belive making it a crime would result in more dumpster babies.

But Jack, the example you just gave, about your friend, showed how Planned Parenthood and pro-Choice America failed her. By glamorizing sex and making her think it's not "bad" and perfectly healthy, and many your age do this, she certainly bought into that propaganda. Either that, or she had no true education on the consequences, emotional and otherwise, and positive reinforcements for that message.

The whole idea is, if she hadn't had sex, she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. She, then, wouldn't have "needed" an abortion, which no one really needs to begin with.

But I know. That's too much to ask from teenagers.

Or so Planned Parenthood would like us to believe.

Don't bother preaching about peer pressure and supporting abstinence education, giving it more weight than the "if it feels good, do it" agenda, just let them know it's okay to masturbate, have sex and do whatever they choose because, after all, everything is a "choice" and everyone can do whatever they choose with his or her "body."

someof u talk about the women who have abortions as some cray desprate crackwhore who doesnt know up from down. seariously? come on now!!

Or some of us have been misquoted or have had our posts misread by others. I did give that allusion for the majority of illegal abortions -- in my opinion of course. I would doubt that a rational, truly intelligent person would be more likely to risk her health in this age, to commit a crime and kill her child, especially as medical science brings us more and more insight on fetal development.

But Jack, the example you just gave, about your friend, showed how Planned Parenthood and pro-Choice America failed her. By glamorizing sex and making her think it's not "bad" and perfectly healthy, and many your age do this, she certainly bought into that propaganda. Either that, or she had no true education on the consequences, emotional and otherwise, and positive reinforcements for that message.

The whole idea is, if she hadn't had sex, she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. She, then, wouldn't have "needed" an abortion, which no one really needs to begin with.

But I know. That's too much to ask from teenagers.

Or so Planned Parenthood would like us to believe.

Don't bother preaching about peer pressure and supporting abstinence education, giving it more weight than the "if it feels good, do it" agenda, just let them know it's okay to masturbate, have sex and do whatever they choose because, after all, everything is a "choice" and everyone can do whatever they choose with his or her "body."

Planned Parenthood and pro-Choice America failed her. By glamorizing sex?! what?!! r u kidding me? no. u know what glamorizes sex? tv, magazines, movies, etc.... however, they cant be blamed for actions people make. she chose to have sex. she was on the pill, he wore a condom. it was a mistake on her part, and she paid for it.

and as for no one needing an abortion... what about girls who are raped? who about the women who will/could die from being prego? they dont need one?

peer pressure is a !@#$%^&*]. most of us give it into it. i try not to, and msot of the time i dont, but i am human and make mistakes and i do give in here and there. and as for abstinence education, thats a joke. it just isnt there enough. and when it is there they go about it the wrong way by trying to shame you into not having sex and telling you your going to get aids and you will die if u have sex. they need to learn how to do abstinence education, and to do that they do need in add in about the pill and condoms and such. throw all options out there instead of making it this vs that.

and it is okay to masturbate. just thought id throw that out there!

Or some of us have been misquoted or have had our posts misread by others. I did give that allusion for the majority of illegal abortions -- in my opinion of course. I would doubt that a rational, truly intelligent person would be more likely to risk her health in this age, to commit a crime and kill her child, especially as medical science brings us more and more insight on fetal development.

well im sorry to be the one to break it to you, but guess what, rational & truly intelligent women do chose to have abortions. not just crazy dumb teenage druggies who dont know who there baby daddy is.

I say that, because in a perfect world, most people would be pro-life and recognize that abortion is inhumane and undignified, and it would be outlawed.

in a perfect world? or in your view of a perfect world?

Mr. Mom was with Michael Keaton, wasn't it? Twins was with Danny DeVito and Ah-nuld.

It's Junior.

Yes, you're right. But the difference is, if abortion is a crime, then the woman is taking that risk. She chooses her own fate. And I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for someone who would not only break the law but kill her innocent, living child. There's a better way.

I do believe, however, that the number of abortion would decline further, due to the fear of becoming pregnant or the fear of having to resort to the back alley measure. Or just the fear of being a criminal. Only the lowest of the low, and mentally unstable or emotionally unstable, would seriously kill their own child and risk personal harm. Of course, I say that now but look at all the heartless abortion "doctors" who suck out fetuses every day like their doing liposuction.

No, it won't. Wanna know why? Because we're living in a society that somehow thinks that abstinence is the only way to go. Of course, with the stress of abstinence in schools, take a wild guess as to what doesn't get talked about? SAFE SEX! When safe sex doesn't get talked about, what's not talked about? The various methods of protection. It is not a coincidence that areas that has abstinence-only programs show high teen pregnancy and STD rates.

But Jack, the example you just gave, about your friend, showed how Planned Parenthood and pro-Choice America failed her. By glamorizing sex and making her think it's not "bad" and perfectly healthy, and many your age do this, she certainly bought into that propaganda. Either that, or she had no true education on the consequences, emotional and otherwise, and positive reinforcements for that message.

HELLO! We're animals! We get in heat too! We have a biological need to mate! That's not going to change any time soon unless you're heavily into endocrinology and can severely alter our hormones.

If you're so damn concerned about those unwanted kids because "a life is a life" then you better put your money where your mouth is and adopt every single one of them. You raise them because you're definitely not going to force a mother who doesn't want a child to raise them.

Back to the original topic at hand, it's rather funny that the very people John McCain is pandering to are the very people who dogged his wife and called his daughter an illegitimate mulatto...

No, it won't. Wanna know why? Because we're living in a society that somehow thinks that abstinence is the only way to go. Of course, with the stress of abstinence in schools, take a wild guess as to what doesn't get talked about? SAFE SEX! When safe sex doesn't get talked about, what's not talked about? The various methods of protection. It is not a coincidence that areas that has abstinence-only programs show high teen pregnancy and STD rates.

HELLO! We're animals! We get in heat too! We have a biological need to mate! That's not going to change any time soon unless you're heavily into endocrinology and can severely alter our hormones.

If you're so damn concerned about those unwanted kids because "a life is a life" then you better put your money where your mouth is and adopt every single one of them. You raise them because you're definitely not going to force a mother who doesn't want a child to raise them.

I agree Danni, it is so much better to terminate a future life than give it a chance to live because some morons in "heat" as you call it can't protect themselves or be responsible! Blame the damn fetus for NOT making a mistake!