Thank you, Ponz.

I think that Hogan wanted a WTD story but he had to address that:

1) Sami doesn't cheat

2) Sami has to have a compelling reason not to tell the truth to Lucas

As a woman that has been there I find the misuse of the term galling. I take it personal. I feel that it belittles my experience.

And BTW, I am a Lumi fan.

I think that Hogan wanted a WTD story but he had to address that:

1) Sami doesn't cheat

2) Sami has to have a compelling reason not to tell the truth to Lucas

As a woman that has been there I find the misuse of the term galling. I take it personal. I feel that it belittles my experience.

And BTW, I am a Lumi fan.

IA.

EJ took advantage of Sami's panic. He held the gun on her to force her to help him through the roadblock. He was ready to run at that point. She was desperate to get help for Lucas, since she wasn't smart enough to do it by herself. She asked EJ to help and he told her he had an idea and she said "anything". Of course she did not want to sleep w/EJ, she had just recomitted herself to Lucas. But EJ gave her a choice-have sex with me and I'll help Lucas. She was not sure he would do it afterward and he told her she just had to trust him. They made a bargain. A nasty, sleazy bargain, but a bargain nevertheless. Once the deed was done, Sami demanded her part of the transaction. EJ complied. He could have dumped her there and driven off, but he did not. To me, it's not rape and no matter how many scream that it is doesn't change what I saw happen.

There are different forms of rape. Your experience may differ from Sami's recent one, but that doesn't make it fall under a different category. You're udnerstandably biased.

The fact is all the factual information you're using as more proved that it was rape than your goal. At least, in my opinion.

If she consented, as you say, where was the "positive cooperation"? As for duress, she was certainly restrained. Even if you blast the physical restraint, she had emotional and psychological restrants keeping her from just simply saying no, or running away. It's a very special circumstance.

I'm sorry that you had to go through something like that and it's not my intention to belittle your experience. For what it's worth, I have discussed this with other posters who have gone through the same experience and many feel that denying that this was rape belittles [i[their[i/] experience.

A case in point:

http://groups.msn.com/SecondChancesTheLUMI...604045839326764

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Edited January 25, 200718 yr by King

I echo Ponz's concerns. I know personally a handful of women who are victims of rape. And Gods know what else. Everyone's experiences are different and that, in my opinion, is the genius of Sheffer's story here. It was rape, because of all the elements it had. Did EJ pin Sami down and force her into sex? No. But what he did do does not fall out of the category. I don't want to seem unsympathetic, because I am not. Rape- any sort of violation is atrocious and vile. I wouldn't wish on the worst individual I've ever come across. Once. Forget twice. But that's what it was for Sami. No one can really decide what classifies violation, can they? It's all asbout what's been done to you. Everyone has their limits. You can't necessarily define them, even if most of your definition fits with Sami's experience.

Everyone is going to see it differently.

Hogan, I think, has done what he wanted to do. He has created a compelling conflict for LUMI and also has fans talking about whether or not it was rape. You want people to be talking about stories, even if people hate what has happened. There is a interest in what is going on so I think Hogan succeeded there.

I, personally, see it as rape but that is my perception. I think the cirucumstances surrounding the rape, not to mention the way the mags worded the situation in spoilers, were chosen carefully and worded in such a way that it was up to the viewer to decide how they saw the act. I think it was pretty clever and creates good debate and discussion.

I've got to leave for work, just wanted to say great fight scene between phillip and shawn...very realistic...And i liked Marlena and Kayla interacting, Marlena needs more friends...But i find it funny that the die hard marlena fans can't stand patch and kayla...I swear all they do is [!@#$%^&*] most of the time.....And Linn i don't mean to attack you, i consider you a fan of the show as well as a diehard marlena fan..

I'm not sure if I am a fan of the show, and to be honest, I hate the notion that I hate other characters because of my favourites. I never have and I never will.

Isn't it amazing how diehard fans of one supercouple always HATE other supercouples who threaten their couple's popularity and status on the show? They can't just continue to enjoy their couple while being indifferent to another... it's always a case of, "Ugh! Would someone please kill Patch and Kayla? I HAAATE them! Ugh! Would someone please kill Bo and Hope? They'll never measure up to J/M! Why are they always catered to? I hope they die!" The jealousy is astounding and so obvious. They're not even just indifferent... it's raging HATE. That has to come from somewhere! Jealousy is the only thing I can come up with.

I think some supercouple fans won't be happy until every other character on the show is killed off -- except for the ones who are used as a prop for said supercouple. "Kill off Patch, Kayla, Bo, Hope, etc.! But keep Belle... she's a J/M cheerleader! I LOVE Belle."

Okay, um rude. I love John and Marlena, I love Shawn and Belle, I've finally come to love Bo and Hope again (I loved 80s Bope, wish we'd see them more, which I haven't since... ever). I have never once disliked a character because that character was "opposing" to my favourite. Nor have I enjoyed a character because they're "pro" my favourite. I like characters if they're well played and entertaining. I used to despise Belle until MM took over.

I have never been a Patch and Kayla fan, not because I'm a John & Marlena fan, but because I just don't see it. I prefer J&M. Different taste people. Wish it was allowed without threads upon threads being posted on message boards about the rudeness of it. Cause, I don't get why that's not ok. Why is it wrong that I don't enjoy S/K? I'm supposed to take bashing of my favourite couple/actress, but I can't say I don't like another supercouple? And my anger when J&M were pushed off after they lied to us for over a year was directed at Corday and TPTB. I know what it's like to fight for your couple because J&M fans have never been spoiled by TPTB, so I don't begrudge them the chance to see their favourites, BUT, it needs to be equal. Right now, Marlena's about to become Steve's therapist, bringing Steve into yet another storyline. And it's not that I don't want them to be taken off, it just needs to be equaled out. John & Marlena fans, and Bo and Hope fans have stuck by their favourite couple - good and bad - and it's just not right that we're expected to sit there and watch them be pushed aside while newbies and newly returned characters are on every day and in every storyline. Fact is, John and Marlena, Bo and Hope are both incredibly popular supercouples, whose fans have waited for a long time to see a decent storyline. No, we didn't wait 16 years to get them back, but we did sit through insulting storyline after insulting storyline just to get a glimpse of the couple we love so much for those years. J&M fans didn't get a christmas show, not even a mention of christmas. They had a wedding where we heard the water fountain better than the vows, they cut scenes we've been wanting to see forever, which sucks because they've been written well.

I hate the fact that I can't dislike another couple without being accused of wanting every other character killed. Personally, I just don't care about P/K. I don't hate them, I just really don't care. Which IMO should be ok. I didn't care before and I don't now. I'm not committing murder or bashing people for it, I just don't care about a fictional couple. Now, when people start attacking a very real actress, that's where I draw the line.

1) Sami doesn't cheat

That's something I don't get when people say that. Sami HAS cheated before.