Sometimes "polishing" what your boss has already done can get you fired.

If that's the case, then maybe he isn't this living legend people are making him out to be? Being labeled as one of the most respected writers in the industry should come with some perks. Hell, even GH's Tony Geary "polishes" all of Luke's lines... if you can call it that.

Edited September 17, 200718 yr by R Sinclair

If that's the case, then maybe he isn't this living legend people are making him out to be? Being labeled as one of the most respected writers in the industry should come with some perks. Hell, even GH's Tony Geary "polishes" all of Luke's lines... if you can call it that.

I think someone intentionally bloated his reputation, just because he created the memorable GH character means nothing per se. Nothing special about him.

I think someone intentionally bloated his reputation, just because he created the memorable GH character means nothing per se. Nothing special about him.

Nah.

He really is one of the best. That's why he has that reputation for 20+ years now. SB fans loved him. GL fans loved him. GH fans loved him.

The thing with B&B is that they don't really have any interesting characters that Patrick can sink his teeth into. He had Mason at SB, Roger at GL, Carly/Stefan/The Q's at GH.

I would love see him him write dialogue for the Dimeras.

That doesn't surprise me at all. He's a writer that includes "big words" that real adults actually use without being pretentious or flowery.

I knew I had it saved somewhere. LOL

Topic Posted by: Rochelle

Email: **

Date Posted: Sat Oct 2 17:33:37 2004

Additional Comments:

It just so happened that two soap writers live near my college in N. California, so last week they came in and talked to my writing class (with of course has an emphasis on writing in television and film).

They were Patrick Mullcahey and Karen Harris. They've both been in soaps for a long time. They worked together on GH (which was his last job). Karen currently works at AMC. Patrick actually worked on GL in the early 90s, and since that was one of its golden periods IMO it was interesting to hear him touch on it and talk about some of his experiences there.

Basically they spent a large portion of the class talking about the fundamentals of writing in television and having to deal with all the influence that sometimes interferes with your own ideas. Karen spent a lot of time in primetime TV and she talked about her experiences writing pilots and dealing with the networks and things like that. Patrick shared some funny anecdotes about writing in daytime and dealing with network execs. We all complain about MADD, Frons, etc today so it was funny hearing it from people who know what it's like first hand

Towards the end they had time for questions and there were a large number of soap fans (mostly GH fans though so most of the questions were of course about their time on GH). Patrick said the reason he left GH was the executive producer was getting way too involved in the actual scripts of the show. He loved writing dialogue but was taken aback when the EP suggested that he started writing dialogue so that a younger audience could better understand it and relate to it - i.e. dumb it down. Him speaking to a college class, he pointed out that he thinks all of us have an intelligence that the networks and producers underestimate and that good dialogue is good dialogue.

He said the same thing happened when he was writing GL. He loved writing at that show but then suddenly "the production company" (he called it, of course he was talking about P&G) starting changing their management approach and started getting heavily involved in scriptwriting. Frequent re-writes had to be made because they felt the scripts weren't reaching out to their target demographic. He had enough and left.

There were some AMC fans there (like me) so Karen touched upon her stay with that show. She was writing scripts for Port Charles but that show was taken off air (she thinks supernatural doesn't have a place in daytime and that's why not a lot of people watched) She got a call from CBS and they wanted her to start writing scripts for GL. One of her good friends who's been in daytime TV for a long time begged her not to get involved with Procter and Gamble (I guess people in soaps don't like MADD either). A few weeks later one of her other good friends formerly from PC and GH offered her a job at AMC and she went there instead. Apparently at P&G they get too involved in the actual scriptwriting and request frequent re-writes (like Patrick said earlier) but the ABC execs leave the dialogue alone for the most part.

Patrick's favorite soap characters - Roger and Holly (from GL), Stefan (from GH) and Cruz and Eden (SB). Karen's were Lucy, Kevin, and Bobbie (GH/PC) and Adam and Tad (AMC).

Very interesting day and we always talk about P&G and their dumb decision making online, and to hear it from from PM himself was very interesting for me. There's no doubt in my mind that MADD/P&G was the one who fired GA for example. From the sounds of it Kreizman probably doesn't have a lot of pull at all.

I would love see him him write dialogue for the Dimeras.

I knew I had it saved somewhere. LOL

We've read it from a hundred different sources, on a thousand different message boards, and it's always the same. It's the networks and production companies, not the writers. I've also heard that the reason why they never mention family connections who have left the show in the past at weddings/funerals/etc. is because they believe the audience isn't smart enough to understand that just because someone is mentioned doesn't mean they're not coming back to the show.

Seriously... if any petitions or protests should be started, how about one protesting how the networks think none of us have any kind of literary background. We should send the networks thesauruses or something... just to prove that we are intelligent, well-read, capable of debating shades of gray, and are aware of the world spinning around us.

Soaps should be thought-provoking, provocative, human and heartfelt. And many of these writers are unbelievably talented and being shackled to a desk, told to spell everything out to an audience that is perfectly capable of watching a simple dinner scene on a show like Six Feet Under or a movie like In the Bedroom, and can still feel the subtext of about four different subplots in a simple line of dialogue about passing the string beans. Because we know these characters. We get them. And we love them. Nobody's asking to be talked down to, or for it to be hammered in.

Edited September 17, 200718 yr by brimike

^Interesting, I didn't know Wendy Riche was that much of a control freak who wanted the dialogue to be "dumbed down." I'd expect crap like that from JFP, but Patrick worked for her at both SB and GL.

Karen Harris should be a head writer, I've always said that. She's wasted as a script writer and her tenure as head writer on GH, with Culliton, proved that she is more than qualified for the job.

I should also add, I think one of the main reasons Guza's first head writing stint at GH was so successful was mainly because he had Harris as his co-head writer.

^Interesting, I didn't know Wendy Riche was that much of a control freak who wanted the dialogue to be "dumbed down." I'd expect crap like that from JFP, but Patrick worked for her at both SB and GL.

I think Riche was told by ABC. I just don't see Riche coming up with that decision on her own.

Karen Harris should be a head writer, I've always said that. She's wasted as a script writer and her tenure as head writer on GH, with Culliton, proved that she is more than qualified for the job.

I should also add, I think one of the main reasons Guza's first head writing stint at GH was so successful was mainly because he had Harris as his co-head writer.

Word.

Instead we get Guza.

Wow thanks for that article Toups. It goes to show everything that is wrong with daytime. You have an increasingly educated audience crying out for quality drama. Yet while HBO and network primetime are taking more risks than ever before, daytime's gone completely in the opposite direction.

Interesting what you say about there not being interesting characters on B&B for him to get his teeth into and I guess it's partly true -- he is fantastic with Eric and Stephanie. There was one scene when the heart attack had been revealed and Eric went back to the mansion to find Stephanie hashing over old memories which descended into a fierce argument. And he nailed it. Despite being a new writer, that set of scenes told us more about the nature of their relationship than any other in at least 15 years.

MADD? She used to run ABC daytime. Things started to fall apart under her. Then they hit rock bottom under Angela Shapiro when she brought Guza & Pratt back to wreck GH.

I wasn't terribly impressed with Wendy Riche's run on GH. It was all about a bunch of dull teens acting silly. Of course even that is to be preferred to mob central General Violence Mayhem & Women-Hating. Not to forget a show about many rapes.

You have an increasingly educated audience crying out for quality drama""

I do think different people in the audience want different things. I certainly want quality. I want intelligent. But I also like good mystery-adventure and well written supernatural stuff as in Dark Shadows. And NOT as in Port Charles the arcs.

But you also have people who want half naked kids romping around and saying the same thing over & over or else so many years of Days and some of Passions would never have been aired.

There are people who enjoyed Melrose Place and other silly shows.

What I can't explain is what that idiotic trash GH has become has persisted so long or why AMC has been allowed to be so nasty & stupid for several years as well as the nasty violent mess OLTL degenerated into some time ago.

All that said Passions went out with a bang. I didn't see anything last week because my local channel dropped it for some syndicated talk show. But the recent Norma-Edna-Tabitha stuff has been as good as any of the early Tabitha-Timmy stuff and often even more witty & cheeky.

Oh I think there should be more diversity in daytime too and I loved Melrose Place. Trash is good and dialogue doesn't need to be "intelligent" but it should reflect the characters. MP and all those other great trashy shows had punchy, pointed dialogue. Shows like Passions and most of daytime don't. Any line of dialogue could be given to almost any character and that is the foundation of bad TV writing.

Anybody know who wrote and directed today's B&B? For some reason, CTV didn't air the credits.

What do I get in return Toups?

September 17, 2007 Episode of B&B

Director:

Deveney Kelly

Script Writer:

Tracey Ann Kelly

MP and all those other great trashy shows had punchy, pointed dialogue. Shows like Passions and most of daytime don't. Any line of dialogue could be given to almost any character and that is the foundation of bad TV writing.""

That's not the way I saw things.

I could take some of Melrose Place but generally thought the writing including the dialogue was pretty bad. Early MP seems to be better than later and anything at any time seems better than that horrible but extremely well cast spinoff Models, Inc. (I would LOVE to get that on dvd however along with Titans and Central Park West. Titans was an atrocity, writing-wise, but also had an excellent cast.)

Passions is another story. But a complex one at that.

It wasn't the dialogue on Passions which drove me crazy. I liked the supernatural material. It was usually campy & fun.

I didn't like the repetitive nature of most of the romantic stuff.

I hated the endless nature of the cycle of stories. Nothing ever ended and almost all of the big surprise secrets were extremely predictable.

But what really drove me crazy was the darkness which started to permeate the show a few years ago (well into the run of the show.) It was nasty, repulsive at times, and seemingly obsessed with rapes & harming women in various ways.

I did like some trashy shows but I'm at a loss to come up with any great examples.

Footballer's Wives probably would count although it started to wear down well before the end. It's better than American shows.

Dynasty didn't wear well though I did like it when it was on. It really comes off poorly now especially the sets. The writing doesn't come off terribly well now either.

I thought the British Queer as Folk was great but not necessarily terribly trashy (however at the time it seemed to many that it was trashy.) But it had some meaningful content there. The US show sort of veered off into new & different territory which wasn't always that great. It was kind of trashy, certainly more than the original, but I don't know what I'd say about the writing. It wasn't awful. It wasn't great. Nor was it anywhere near as great as the original British show.

The new UK show Hotel Babylon is somewhere in the middle too. It's trashy, sometimes more intelligent than other times, but seems to have wildly erratic writing. Sometimes it seems like complete trash but other times it's fascinating. Not really an example of a great show, though, & certainly not in the same league as some other great British shows. But a great deal better than some other British shows which lack quality such as the interesting in a trashy way but awful show Mile High.

I suppose I'd classify Brothers & Sisters as a trashy show but it's better written than most of what I'd call trashy. And it does have some intelligent content so it probably doesn't count.