ALL: The Brits attack AMERICAN SOAPS!

[Ben]

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The British people have always been very snobby towards American soaps and ALWAYS use the tacky NBC soaps as proof. I'd love for them to get a show like Y&R so they could shut the hell up for once!

I wouldn't say everyone's snobby towards US soaps. There have been a few, prime-time and daytime, which have been a success.

Sunset Beach has got to be the most successful out of all the daytime soaps. It's popularity was huge, and still is, even though it finished, like, 7 years ago.

B&B was a different story. It started off okay, then Five moved it to an earlier time slot, which basically killed it. Then they had the bright idea of scheduling it before SB, which increased it's ratings. But then stupid NBC axed Sunset Beach, and B&B's ratings suffered because it had nothing to lead in to.

Days came a month after Sunset Beach ended. It was marketed as "If you loved Sunset Beach, then you'll love Days of Our Lives," then Ali Sweeny would beam " You Sunset Beach cry-babies..." (can't remember the rest) which ended up being a bit of a turn off, as well as falsely promoting a show as something it wasn't. Viewers tuned in, and quickly realized that Days was anything *but* SB. The ratings slowly declined, until they reached an all time low, and the show was axed.

Y&R and ATWT both aired on SkyOne several years ago. They lasted a while. Weirdly, Days also aired (80's/90's eps) at this time along with ATWT and Y&R. This was the time when Days was popular.

General Hospital has also tried it's luck, airing on ABC1. They axed their most watched show last year. Go figure.

And Dallas, Dynasty, Melrose Place... were also popular.

There is a certain style that works, and Sunset Beach had that winning formula. Now if only all the others would adapt to be like SB, they'd all be a huge success.

Regarding the main point of this thread, Charley Brooker ( the guy presenting the documentary) is known for his very sarcastic, and most times, insulting opinions. He's the kinda guy that you'll either agree or disagree with. I would take what he says with a pinch of salt, because he has been known to diss our soaps too - especially Eastenders. And speaking of, I certainly wouldn't say that EE is the best, it's not the worst, but definitely not the best. Way to depressing for most people's liking.

I think it comes down to what you've grown up with. The UK have always had the Aussie soaps, which is one of the reasons why they're so popular (Neighbours is the best).

[KLN]

Uh, Sunset Beach was good for what it was. But I'd hate to see all the other daytime soaps turn into a carbon copy. And considering how low that show's ratings were in the US, it's pretty safe to say that they won't be trying to mimic.

[All My Shadows]

Actually, I was once told that the reason why "Sunset Beach" is so popular in the UK is because, and these are not my thoughts, most people in the UK who watched it treated it as a comedy and as a way of poking fun at Americans.

[KLN]

Not surprising, because I didn't take SuBe seriously, myself. It was a ton of fun, but it certainly wasn't something to be taken seriously. It did have its great, dramatic moments (especially "Shockwave"), but the show was a camp-fest... certainly not a formula that would work on most other daytime soaps. SuBe was BORN a camp soap, whereas others weren't.

[All My Shadows]

Right. SuBe had what, around 750 episodes? WHY oh why can't a channel like Oxygen or something rerun it? They can air it once in the daytime and a repeat at night. That'd be too awesome.

[heatherwebber]

Oxygen tried to run Neighbours a few years ago and messed it up horribly.

First, they tried to run it opposite Y&R, Days & AMC in the early afternoon which was idiotic.

Then when that failed they only ran the rest in the middle of the night.

When FX network first showed up they ran H&A for a few weeks but in prime time at 8. But that didn't work so they quickly dropped it never to be seen again.

I wouldn't say EE is always depressing. It's gotten more so over the past few years but it's had lots of moods over the years. I can't compare to other UK soaps because the only other one I've seen is Coronation St. I haven't been able to see that in years.

The GH airings in the UK were a joke. It was horribly written at the time. I can't imagine who decided that it even had a chance. (Not that it's a whole lot better now.)

I think years ago when GH was a quite different show it may have aired in the UK, maybe in the 80s.

I found Sunset Beach wildly erratic. Sometimes it was good, sometimes excellent, other times horrible. The only period I loved was when Margeret DePriest was writing it. I know a lot of people didn't care for her or her writing on some other shows but she knew how to tell interesting stories. That's a lot more than I can say about some of the current soap writers in the US.

[Drew]

as I understand it, they started airing Days episodes circa 2001 when it replaced SuBe ... also a horrible idea. One of Days darkest times ... I've only seen it topped by 2003-2005.

[JamesF]

General Hospital was vaguely successful for the minor cable network it aired on. I think it was more to do with Disney politics than anything else that it got axed.

We did have Y&R on cable for 6 or 7 years in the mid 90s. It even had a primetime slot for a brief while but the network decided to go in a different direction. The quality thing doesn't necessarily translate though. I remember someone describing it as being about "overly made up characters who statically talk to one another from either ends of a room, occasionally swapping positions". Again, when the UK audience has become used to the production values of our soaps (from the 80s onwards), they just don't accept anything less in 'quality' programming regardless of the stories. And even though I enjoy Y&R, the occasional creeky pauses and facial expressions before scenes end don't gel well with 'quality'. I know some people enjoy those soap conventions but I really believe things like that should be phased out.

Anyway after SuBe ended, DOOL began with the episodes of Gina's wedding to Bo and her shooting Marlena and Shawn. It ended with the Coronation Massacre. Just as with GH, it wasn't wildly popular but it did fine ratings wise for the channel it was on. Politics came into play again because the channel was invested in by a European media corporation that had a "no US soaps" policy for whatever reason. B&B mysteriously disappeared two months later.

Finally, to make it clear, nobody over here watched SuBe as a way to make fun of Americans. I've never heard that said and frankly I find it ridiculous. Unlike the American audience (I hate to generalise but the ratings spoke for themselves), the British audience got the joke! They loved it because it was so self-reflexive and had such a great sense of humour about itself. The stars used to do publicity when they were over here and interview after interview revolved around how it was "camp" and Lesley Anne Down even referred to it as a "silly little show." It was the antithesis of EE in that it had no pretense. Basically, it was fun.

[heatherwebber]

I did read that back when the BBC picked up Neighbours they nearly went with American shows. General Hospital and probably All My Children were looked at seriously. It was the terrible production standards that killed any thoughts. Back then both of those particular shows were very well written unlike today. But they were done with tiny sets and what seemed to have a very cheap look among other things.

Neighbours on the other hand did a lot of regular shooting outside on streets and beaches.

GH only did stunt locations for brief periods which for US soaps was revolutionary. But it wasn't what the BBC wanted.

Y&R is also quite different now than the past. It had brilliant stories all along. However things moved VERY VERY slowly. A lot of scenes were thrown in for the emotional impact. Sometimes just friends talking. Sometimes some other emotional contact would be there. The scenes didn't show up as on other shows just to fill time. But they didn't progress stories or always make major revelations. When the stories would move along there'd always be HUGE payoffs. More than worth the wait. But they were few and far between.

I always found it much more interesting than B&B. However I'd have to say that sometimes B&B pulls something off that beats all the other US soaps in a major way such as some of their Sally plots and this latest Betty White story. And most anything they ever did with Sheila tended to be stunning, not including that awful "current GH"-styled Sheila & Sugar fiasco. With a better story that would have been amazing. But it had no meaning and was as silly as anything GH has tried for the past few years.

Sunset Beach never had a chance over here. NBC didn't back any of their soaps for years. They kept cancelling stuff and not replacing it. Then along came Sunset Beach. It was opposite GH, which was generally highly rated. NBC daytime had become a nonentity by then. Days would go up and down but nothing else was noticed by viewers. I don't think enough people watched to "get" much of anything out of it. It was difficult to watch during certain writing stints. It definitely had some bad writing at times. Nothing as bad as current GH.

It's always amazed me that NBC/Universal didn't seem to even bother trying to sell Passions in the UK. Seems to me in the past when it was more tolerable that it would have been a natural for the Sunset Beach fans. It was campy & silly in a funny way, and over the top in every way, despite being terribly repetitive and obsessed with some very annoying kids. But now it's all rapes & violence and extreme tackiness in a mean-spirited way.

[All My Shadows]

Well perhaps that was the wrong way to put it. People have told me, and I just looked up the thread on another message board, that the main reason why soaps like SuBe and B&B had any audience in the UK is because of their comedic value. It's like...okay, how about sitting down and watching a traditional US soap and look at it as a traditional US soap, and not a fricken sitcom.

ITA with Kenny when he said that our soaps are like family. It's okay when we talk about them, but the second anyone else badmouths them, we get on the defensive lol. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad.

[Drew]

Not true. 1997 when SuBe came along Days was going strong in ratings, in publicity, in buzz, in emmy nominations.

[JamesF]

Okay I see where you're coming from and I agree. As far as 'traditional' stories are concerned in comparison with the UK soaps, I think Y&R, OLTL or GL are the only ones that would fly as traditional over here if they had the heightened production values.

But SuBe...it's so difficult to explain. People here weren't necessarily watching it as a sitcom -- there was intentional humour there with the stories but the British audience did also have a tremendous, genuine affection for the show and the characters. It wasn't watched in the same fluffy way as Footballer's Wives -- if a key character died, people did care. I don't know what the audience was getting from B&B though. It never had enough publicity to guage it even though the ratings were decent.

[Cheyenne]

It's funny how they almost only focus on Passions. The worst of all US-soaps (imo) with lowest ratings.

I've watched UK soaps too, some of them air here and some I've downloaded... and they sucks actually.

[Drew]

They also can't say they havent gone the US soap route, and had success with it.

EastEnders seems to take every chance it can to partner with Doctor Who. And Coronation Street had that wackjob Richard Hillman, who murdered people, scammed people, and tried to kill himself with Gail and her kids by gassing them in a garage - only to have to end up in a street chase ending in the river when he was caught. The richard story being a big success for Coronation Street.

It seems to me with the bulk of their soaps being boring and repressed, when audiences get something like SuBe, Footballers Wives, or certain over the top stories that go outside the box - they clean up big.

[Cheyenne]

^^ Footballers Wives was awesome. Cold Feet was even better. But it was primetime so...