kalbir

Yup. You had the third place mess era (Fall 1987-Spring 1991), some signs of life (Fall 1991-Spring 1994), and another mess era starting Fall 1994. 1995 CBS sold to Westinghouse and goodbye Laurence Tisch, hello Les Moonves. Yes, it's funny that CBS had a Friday night line up of The Incredible Hulk, The Dukes of Hazzard, Dallas. Two shows for the kids, one show for the parents when the kids have gone to bed LOL.

Thank you for answering and I agree re Laura. While Val was the long-suffering heroine, Abby was the villainess, and Karen was the anchor/tentpole of the group, Laura was the heart and conscience of the group. Laura kept everyone in check and did not hesitate to call anyone out and put them on blast. Her absence left a huge hole in the show. Donna Mills was smart to leave when she did. Nicollette Sheridan wasn't a regular cast member until Season 10, but did you find that Paige ate the show during the final five seasons?

@DRW50 When would you say Knots Landing started tanking and when did it start to go off the rails for you? I'd say the tanking started in the aftermath of Val being reunited with the twins and it started going off the rails in the aftermath of Laura's death.

Knots Landing is not the type of soap you'd expect to go into action thriller/James Bond territory but I think they got Wolfbridge in Season 5 right. Empire Valley started good in Season 6 but was a mess in Season 7 and Jean Hackney in Season 8 was awful.

Yeah they were. It also didn't help that CBS struggled with sitcoms for most of the 1980s, from when M*A*S*H ended and The Jeffersons, Alice, One Day at a Time fell out of the Top 10 in 1982/83 to Murphy Brown and Designing Women entering the Top 30 in 1989/90 (they became Top 10 shows in 1990/91). Newhart and Kate & Allie started good, but they couldn't maintain their momentum and they got overshadowed by the big NBC and ABC sitcoms of the mid-1980s. It's so funny how the fortunes of CBS primetime and daytime changed in opposite directions over the course of the 1980s. CBS primetime was riding high at the beginning of the 1980s thanks to Who Shot JR mania but was an absolute mess by the end of the decade. CBS daytime was shaken up at the beginning of the 1980s by the huge rise of ABC but was #1 by the end of the decade with all four soaps hitting their stride plus the game show block. Also Magnum, P.I., Simon & Simon, Knots Landing. CBS Thursday was killing it with that block until NBC premiered The Cosby Show and the rest is history.

You're welcome @soapfan770 @Paul Raven You'd think CBS would have learned their lesson in 1981/82 re Knots Landing at 9 pm but they didn't. CBS did not have much success with launching new dramas in the second half of the 1980s. They kept the primetime soaps and action shows as long as they did because the new dramas launched from Fall 1985 to Fall 1989 which had multiple season runs (The Equalizer, The Twilight Zone, Houston Knights, Beauty and the Beast, Jake and the Fatman, Tour of Duty, Wiseguy, Paradise) didn't show any signs of growth. Magnum, P.I. was effectively done Spring 1986, Simon & Simon was effectively done Spring 1987, and the primetime soaps were creatively exhausted by Spring 1988. It wasn't until Northern Exposure premiered Summer 1990 that CBS had a new drama which would show growth during its run.

The huge rise of Reilly's Days from 1993 to 1997 really shook up both Y&R and B&B. Y&R is fine through the first half of 1994. Summer 1994, the frat party starts. Fall 1994, Y&R goes off track in the aftermath of OJ. Y&R doesn't recover until the second half of 1997. Bradley takes over B&B in 1993 and it goes into a lull for the rest of that year and for most of 1994. Some signs of life in late 1994 that lead to Bradley's big storylines culminating in the first half of 1995. Second half of 1995, the tanking starts and B&B is done for me after the Jabot/Newman crossover in 1999. The consensus here is that B&B was done after 2002.

CBS messed up their Thursday lineup in Fall 1986. Magnum, P.I. moved to Wednesday 9 pm head-to-head w/ Dynasty (which was still a Top 10 show heading into Fall 1986). Simon & Simon moved up 1 hour to 8 pm where it was DOA against The Cosby Show and Family Ties (which were #1 and 2nd in 1985/86). Knots Landing moved up 1 hour to 9 pm where I think CBS expected it would kill off The Colbys but instead Knots Landing got weakened further by Cheers and Night Court. CBS saw the error of their ways and moved Knots Landing back to 10 pm but then NBC counter-programmed Thursday 10 pm by replacing aging Hill Street Blues w/ new drama L.A. Law and that move paid off for NBC. Here's how L.A. Law compared to Knots Landing in the years they were head-to-head. 1986/87: 21. L.A. Law (first season), 26. Knots Landing (down from 17th in 1985/86). 1987/88: 12. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30. 1988/89: 13. L.A. Law, 27. Knots Landing. 1989/90: 16. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30. 1990/91: 23. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30. 1991/92: 28. L.A. Law. Knots Landing was below the Top 30. 1992/93: Both were below the Top 30 and 1992/93 was Knots Landing final season. L.A. Law and Knots Landing first faced off on December 4, 1986 and the L.A. Law episode was Jeanne Cooper's first appearance as Gladys Becker. I see what you did there NBC, you're not fooling me. The Dukes of Hazzard and Dallas both appealed to male audiences and Dallas was CBS's highest rated scripted show so maybe that's why CBS left The Dukes of Hazzard where it was despite the ratings collapse in its final three seasons. Perhaps Lorimar insisted on keeping Dallas and Falcon Crest in a block.

Who would've thought Sheila Carter would end up with 5 kids by 4 dads.

Budget mode is here sadly.

The full episode hasn't surfaced but from the clips, Victor got drunk in his devastation over Ashley's marriage to Steven and it also looked like Victor got a little rough with Nikki.

Caroline was one of B&B's best original characters as written by Bill Bell but I don't think she had much of an impact in the years following her death. Bill Bell essentially replaced Caroline with Taylor. I think Bill Bell realized that over on Y&R he rushed into recasting Ashley and that may have lead to his decision to kill off Caroline instead of going the recast route. Caroline's death was probably B&B's saddest death, even if her final scenes were a dust off of Jennifer Brooks's death on Y&R 13 years earlier and the storyline so far removed from the realities of a cancer patient (see also Jessica Blair's AIDS patient storyline on Y&R and her death 8 months earlier).

Going back to networks dominating a specific night, how about CBS Fridays from 1981-1985? December 4, 1981: CBS launches their new Friday lineup 8 pm The Dukes of Hazzard (moved up from 9 pm, replacing The Incredible Hulk which was pulled from the schedule), 9 pm Dallas (moved up from 10 pm), 10 pm new drama Falcon Crest. The Dukes of Hazzard drops from 2nd to 6th (it's final Top 10 season), Dallas has its second consecutive season at #1, Falcon Crest finishes 13th and is the highest rated new scripted series in 1981/82. No ABC and NBC Friday shows finish in the Top 30 in 1981/82. 1982/83: The Dukes of Hazzard drops to 30th (this was the cast switch season), Dallas drops to 2nd (60 Minutes is #1 this season), Falcon Crest moves up to 8th. No ABC and NBC Friday shows finish in the Top 30. 1983/84: The Dukes of Hazzard falls below the Top 30, Dallas moves up to #1 (it's final #1 season), Falcon Crest moves up to 7th (it's highest finish ever). ABC has a Friday show in the Top 30, Webster first season (25th). No NBC Friday shows finish in the Top 30. 1984/85: The Dukes of Hazzard finishes below the Top 30 in what would be its final season, Dallas drops to 2nd (Dynasty is #1 this season), Falcon Crest drops to 10th (it's final Top 10 season). ABC has a Friday show in the Top 30, Webster (25th). No NBC Friday shows finish in the Top 30. A notable drama that premieres on NBC Friday this season: Miami Vice. Fall 1985, the tide is starting to shift. 1985/86: The Dukes of Hazzard replaced by new drama The Twilight Zone, which finishes below the Top 30. Dallas drops to 6th (it's final Top 10 season) and Falcon Crest drops to 24th. No ABC Friday shows in the Top 30. Over on NBC, Miami Vice blows up and finishes 9th, it's highest finish ever. 1986/87: The Twilight Zone moves to Saturday 10 pm and is replaced on Fridays by Scarecrow and Mrs. King (moved from Monday 8 pm), which falls below the Top 30 in what would be its final season. Dallas drops to 11th and Falcon Crest moves up to 23rd. No ABC Friday shows in the Top 30. Perhaps a little overconfident from Miami Vice success the previous season, NBC launches their new Friday lineup 8 pm The A-Team (moved from Tuesday 8 pm), 9 pm Miami Vice (moved up from 10 pm), 10 pm new drama L.A. Law. That lineup didn't work as The A-Team falls below the Top 30 in what would be its final season and Miami Vice drops to 26th. L.A. Law was not doing the job I think NBC wanted it to do (clobber Falcon Crest) so NBC replaces L.A. Law on Fridays with Crime Story (moved from Tuesday 9 pm) and moves L.A. Law to Thursday 10 pm (replacing Hill Street Blues, which moved to Tuesday 9 pm) where it would take off (there's also the factors of having NBC's Thursday comedy block as its lead ins and being head-to-head with a weakened Knots Landing). L.A. Law finishes 21st while Crime Story is below the Top 30. 1987/88: Scarecrow and Mrs. King replaced by new drama Beauty and the Beast, which finishes below the Top 30. Dallas drops to 22nd and Falcon Crest falls below the Top 30. No ABC and NBC Friday shows in the Top 30. A notable sitcom that premieres on ABC Friday this season: Full House. 1988/89: Beauty and the Beast is below the Top 30, Dallas drops to 29th, Falcon Crest is below the Top 30. No ABC and NBC Friday shows in the Top 30. 1988/89 is the final season for Miami Vice. Fall 1989, the tide fully shifts. 1989/90: Beauty and the Beast moves to Wednesday 8 pm and CBS keeps changing Friday 8 pm because nothing works. Dallas falls below the Top 30 and Falcon Crest is below the Top 30 in what would be its final season. No NBC Friday shows in the Top 30. Over on ABC, they launch the TGIF brand for their Friday comedy block and the first TGIF lineup is Full House, new comedy Family Matters, Perfect Strangers, Just the Ten of Us. Full House gets their first Top 30 finish (22nd). As we all know ABC's TGIF Friday comedy block was a 1990s staple while CBS struggled on Fridays during that decade.

I'd say so. Remember 1994 was when Reilly's Days had really taken off and was about to blow up in the aftermath of OJ. Nobody I knew of the middle school/high school demographic back then was checking for the frat party, it was all about Reilly's Days. I thought Victor had the vasectomy during his marriage to Julia, and learned it wasn't successful around the time Julia miscarried a child Victor believed was fathered by Michael Scott.

I think the frat party started the following week. I cannot for the life of me understand why Bill Bell tried so hard to make Joshua Morrow happen from Fall 1994 to Spring 1996 when the real hotness on the show was Shemar Moore.

I thought Nikki the wedding crasher had fallen off the wagon but she didn't.

With Tracey Bregman's 40th anniversary coming up, we might see more of said scenes, and maybe even flashbacks.

So happy to read you're doing better. Looking forward to your thoughts on the remainder of Season 6, especially the Ava Gardner episodes. Her arc was one of the highlights of the series for me.

@Paul Raven ABC Tuesdays only seemed to stumble from 1982/83 to 1984/85, which overlaps w/ the peak seasons of The A-Team. ABC Tuesdays would rebound in 1985/86 when Who's the Boss took off and would be really cemented by 1988/89 with the breakout success of Roseanne.

For Y&R I think Cassandra Rawlins applies. Introduced March 1988, was front burner all of 1989 and most of 1990, killed off March 1991. Cassandra's final storyline had her tricking Brad into marriage and her death resulted in Brad inheriting her home and business.

I'm not familiar with As the World Turns before the Marland years, but did they do a better job with 1980s trends compared to their CBS P&G sister GL? Dallas influence - James Stenbeck introduced as the new villain. In the JR Ewing and His Copies thread, James Stenbeck was not mentioned so maybe he wasn't cut from the JR mold. Dynasty influence - wealthy widow Lucinda Walsh runs her late husband's business Supercouples - Holden/Lily during the Marland years, not sure who would fit before the Marland years. Action/adventure - not sure what would apply here

Bill Bell put Paul and Christine in each other's orbit in 1993 during the housing discrimination storyline. I think that pairing was set up because Michael Damian was on his way out. From what I've seen/read of Paul and Nikki's initial storyline, it was more troublemakers having a good time and I didn't think there was any genuine love there. I agree that Danny and Christine were genuine love.

Thank you @ChickenNuggetz92 for all your time and effort in keeping the Vault going.

Agree. Tracey Bregman 40th anniversary this month. Hopefully her anniversary episode will have some scenes not shown since their original broadcast.

@Paul Raven I'm not really familiar with most of 1980s GL but is it safe to say that they tried a good number of the 1980s trends but got them wrong? Dallas influence - Lewis family from Oklahoma that owns an oil company Dynasty influence - jet setter Alexandra Spaulding divorced from wealthy European Baron Von Halkein Supercouples - Phillip/Beth, Josh/Reva Action/adventure - not sure what would apply here