The Politics Thread

[marceline]

Actually I think they'll gain some ground in 2014. Fewer people turn out for midterms and the Repubs do better when fewer people vote although obviously I hope that I'm wrong and we can keep turnout high.

The right isn't going to get over it. Nor will they learn from their lesson. The most they'll do is moderate their speech a little bit. That's been the main narrative, "We have good positions. We just need to articulate them better." But the fact is they don't have good positions. Trickle-down economics is not a good position. Makers vs. takers isn't a good positions. Legitimate rape isn't a good position but they aren't ready to accept that so what we will get is more of the same. The Republicans won't learn unless they lose the White House and Congress and a couple of red states turn blue.

[DRW50]

They almost have to gain seats in 2014. At least in the Senate - they may have reached their peak in the House. The Senate, there are too many seats for Democrats to lose, and I'm not sure the Republicans are going to be dumb enough to keep picking Akins and O'Donnells for a third straight cycle.

[JaneAusten]

If the republicans continue to embrace the tea party elements they will continue to nominate these radicals, and its this element that contols the money. IMO its big busienss in country that needs to decide what or who they want to endorse, as they have been the traditional supporters of the republican party in recent years and I think even they are intuitive enough to see the elements that are chasing mainstream support away.

Luger was a conservative republican from Indiana and they(his own party) trounced him with that radical. Luger may have been a conservative but he also had a reputation for being decent and someone who was willing to reach across the aisle. The party can embrace its alleged ideals of fiscal conservatism and less government and win back some mainstream support and get off the more recent hypocrisy that has infiltrated their beliefs. If they don't, the party will become more radical and become a,fringe party over time. If they don't change they are already headed in that direction. Radicals may get the press for being outrageous, but elections tell us most Americans are moderate. That's been proven when the democrats were more influenced by radicals and now the republicans.

This country needs a multi party system. There are enough IMO moderate republicans out there who get it and can hopefully help party evolve. If may be several years of losses before it happens, but it will occur IMO.

Sniping at Obama isn't going to get them anywhere anymore. They should see that. It didn't really do them any good with their campaign against Clinton and isn't in their hate against Obama.

[DRW50]

I just wonder how those who spent 4 years saying Obama was Jimmy Carter will react. Is he Jimmy Carter on steroids now?

[GoldenDogs]

Every little thing, Redd? Four dead Americans - victims of a terrorist attack in Libya and subsequent coverup - is a little thing to you? Dead Israelis and Palestinians is a little thing to you? Layoffs, businesses shrinking, the stock market falling - I suppose that is all a little thing to you, as well.

Leftists certainly have their heads buried in the sand.

I've long gotten over Obama's reelection. Took me about five minutes because I then realized that, after another four years, the mantra that it is all "Bush's fault" won't work anymore. Pay close attention to the state of the economy, Redd, and take heed of unemployment numbers. Ask old folks about their medical care options a year from now. Even better, let's ask everyone a year from now how they like it. Ask those of us who work for a living how Obama's rotten policies have affected our paychecks.

We'll see where we're at four years from now... that will reveal all I think. We'll see if another four years of Obama was a smooth move.

And I'm sick and tired of the implication that a difference of an opinion means racism. Get over that crap. Those who go there are the true bigots.

Actually, Carter, Obama is worse than Carter. And he's far more dangerous, as well.

Carter was just a simpleton. Obama is something else entirely.

[DRW50]

I thought the view was that Carter was dangerous because of Iran and because he made America sad, et al.

I don't know. I never understand why Democratic Presidents are always compared in some type of weird mix and match format. I think it's based on the media seeing Democrats as interlopers, and Republicans as the father who stops by to check on them and turn out their bedroom light.

It's a win-win for some businesses. They have adapted to having less workers with lower salaries, who work harder. And it's a goldmine for them, because they can just blame Obama. The man who owns Papa John's is hugely wealthy, and yet he can dump people, blame Obamacare, and become a hero and a savior.

[Ann_SS]

The Republicans continue to reject facts and live in a delusional world; the stock market and corporate profits have boomed under Obama. They just refuse to share any of those profits with their employees. To quote Warren Buffet, "There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning."

Here is an article on Papa Johns and the Affordable Care Act: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/11/19/cheer-up-papa-johns-obamacare-gave-you-a-good-deal/?hpid=z3

Edited November 20, 2012 by Ann_SS

[DRW50]

The biggest failing of the GOP elite in this past election was their refusal to hide just how much they hate the public. Rove hid it when Bush was first in office - the public was treated to various PR events which could make them feel more at ease. Now the public gets "makers and takers." This is Heritage Foundation-type speak which sounds very profound to very rich men who all have the same background and the same goal and will nod along with each other. But the message to the public amounted to, "You're stupid and worthless because you want something for yourself. You're supposed to want something that benefits us, and maybe someday we'll throw you a few bucks, if we feel like it. That's what America is about."

Romney's plan essentially was a) I'm not Obama b ) you're beneath contempt c) get over yourself. And this is the plan we've continued to see since Romney lost. The only difference is they may hide behind a minority in 2016.

[JaneAusten]

I want to understand and particularly to Brian and Max(who I do respect where has he been) do you really feel your party is moving in a positive direction? Forget Obama and the racism targeted at him or the media bias you may feel he receives, I really, as someone who feels there are core values the republican party espouses that's have some value, want to understand. But do the Tea Party type policies really espouse what you feel the core of this party should be? The party of the Bush family has never preached less government have they? It was under Clinton that government spending was actually cut. They are of the belief to use government to push their principles which is not fiscal conservatism that's for sure, it's big government and social conservatism.

Bushs tax cuts have been maintained under Obama, the coffers of big business has grown, businesses as we know are cash heavy, yet none of these Bush tax cuts have encouraged businesses to invest and develop and hire and you can't blame Obama, frankly its an excuse and continues to be. The stock market is up isn't it. I see complaints about the market being down. But the Dow, NasDaq are all up from where they were 4 years ago.

I don't want to see right wing or leftist columnists preaching, I'm really interested in your thoughts. Forget Obama, hasn't the public spoken this election by pushing against the extreme right in this past election and isn't there a lesson to be learned?

Most new small businesses by the way, the foundation of America is what I keep hearing both parties talk about, are started by minorities and women, the 2 factions the republicans seem to cast aside.

[ReddFoxx]

I wasn't talking about any of that, but of course you segue into something completely different in typical right-wing fashion. You posted about Obama mispronouncing names and that was what I was responding to, you know that. There was no cover up in Libya and I don't subscribe to the theory that Obama set that whole thing up, because that is just insanity.

After the entire hilarious screed about how all the polls were lying and Obama was really down double digits, I wouldn't accuse anyone of having their head buried in the sand, but that's water under the bridge. Unemployment is headed downward and will continue to go that way, this recovery was never going to be an easy one, but it is happening.

I didn't call you a racist and honestly I don't care if you are one or not. It seems like many right-wingers like to holler "I'm not racist" or accuse the left of calling them racist even in situations when there have been no accusations of such. Whatever you are, plenty in your party do have racial hangups and that can't be disputed.

Romney lost, Obama won. The world is not going to freaking end because of that.

Edited November 20, 2012 by ReddFoxx

[Wales2004]

The Republicans and their foreign policy attack on Barack Obama seems to be taking the place of their formerly digging in too deep on the budget. One day John McCain is pushing the idea of Bill Clinton going to negotiate with Israel and the Palestinians, the next he's upset that Hilary Clinton, who happens to be the Secretary of State, is the one going to the region. His contempt is blinding him in the worst way.

Being out of touch with every day people is a significant factor because the reality is that those people don't care much what is going on outside of their neighborhoods, cities, or states. It doesn't matter whether they should or not, it matters that they aren't going to continually be bombarded with this whole alleged Libyan cover up when they see people they know being killed where they live. They're being asked to give priority to that killing when mass murders go on in this country at a neighborhood salon, college campus, or movie theater.

I can't even begin to understand your contempt for Barack Obama. It seems way too personal. So you believe he is responsible for dead Israelis and Palestinians? Why stop there, why not blame him for every criminal act that has taken place in the U.S.?

I can't imagine what it's like to harbor so much contempt and resentment for a man that the bitterness manifests itself in the kind of beliefs that you've expressed.

And Republicans don't seem to care as much about the four dead people as they do making it into a partisan issue. The fact that individuals run around carrying that water who probably were dead silent about leading this country into war under the pretext of fictitious weapons of mass destruction, is a prime example of the dichotomy of America that's going to continue to send all those people into fits of madness that their idyllic "traditional" America is gone. Eventually the voting landscape will change in a way that keeps most of those nut jobs from sliding into the House and the Senate in mid-term years. That will happen when that voting demographic exceeds the nuts in a number that nullifies voter apathy.

[marceline]

I work for a living and his policies have been pretty good for me since they reduced my taxes (as they did for most Americans) but once again, that's all about math and facts. I can't help but notice that there is not one single, objectively verifiable statement in your post. No facts, no numbers, no discussion of specific policies. Just hysteria, baseless accusations and prognostications of doom.

Now let's get back to waiting for that Romney landslide! That was fun!

Edited November 20, 2012 by marceline

[Wales2004]

I guess when you couple that with the following that it all becomes a tad bit humorous.

That's kind of presumptuous isn't it? Are you implying that every working individual is feeling the same way? Would that be like how George Bush's policies affected the paychecks of some individuals or maybe the other George Bush before him or even some might say of Ronald Reagan?

So all those people who are living the high life and doing extremely well financially must be thanking Barack Obama for his rotten policies that continue to benefit them in the best way imaginable? That would be the flip side right?

[Ann_SS]

Clearly, you don't realize that in the Republican world, they are the only ones who work for a living. The rest of us live on government handouts and think that the government should give us stuff. RME.

It is pure delusion. They always pronounce things that are factually not true and when you point that out they change topics.

Heh! I bet he won the election in their world too.

I happen to think that CIA has a lot of questions to answer about the attack in Benghazi. However, I also want the Republicans to start pointing the figures at themselves because they are the ones who refused to fund security to defend the Embassies and Consulates.

[GoldenDogs]

Okay, I can only respond to one post. I offer something and I get half a dozen responses, sometimes multiple responses to the same post. I can't keep up with that sort of thing, so I'm picking one. Maybe that's why people like Ann sometimes don't respond to me when I ask a direct question... she's too busy trying to reply to half a dozen. Or maybe she is afraid to speak directly to me. At any rate, I'll respond do Jane, though she doesn't respect me like she does Max.

First off, my problem with Obama is his policies as a whole. If he is just another Bush, carrying forth with Bush-like policies, then why does the left love him so? Bush was loathed... Obama isn't. Why?

Economics: Where is the recovery we were promised? You say stocks are up... marginally. That's what happens when you print money and feed it to the brokers. But the "correction" is coming. You can't stimulate a faltering economy longterm by feeding it printed paper. You can't stimulate a faltering economy by increasing debt. If those policies work so well, then I personally challenge you and everyone else here, Jane, to adopt Obamanomics in your home budget. Spend money and create debt... and see how well your credit rating does. Meanwhile, I'll hold the line on debt and save money, spending it only on essentials. Then let's see who comes out the better after four years doing this, okay? The stimulus failed... and not because it wasn't big enough. If it wasn't big enough, then why didn't it help just a little rather than a lot? Seriously.

Foreign Policy: Obama has tried too hard to make our enemies like us. They don't like us. They hate us. I have issues with the way Bush conducted foreign policy, too. Stop wasting dollars on countries and foreign powers who wish to do us harm... feed and clothe people HERE first. The Middle East is exploding. He has all but turned his back on Israel, offering lukewarm support at best. The pinnacle of Obama's foreign policy failures really is Libya, which the administration is clearly dancing around. They screwed up.

Social and Domestic Issues: Hope and change ended up being more of the same, which keeps this country more divided than ever. It really begins and ends with Obamacare. The majority of people in this country did NOT want it, still don't want it, and may likely never get it anyway because it's too expensive to administer. I hope the House refuses to fund it... or fund it only if entitlements are rolled back and/or eliminated. Every bit of dissent against Obama policies are portrayed by the left as being tied to racism. Give me a break. The race card is used way too much by liberals and it has gotten old. Where is immigration reform (and I'm not talking blanket amnesty here), border control, etc.? What has Obama truly done to unite the country?

When I look at people like Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, I get physically ill. These people are terrible representatives of the Democratic party. Partisan idealogues... And, yes, I feel the same about the Republican leadership. None of these people have spines and are more concerned with the party line than what is in the best interest for America. Sadly, I feel the same can be said for Obama. I don't think we quite know what Obama's true agenda is at this point.

The man's election was hardly a mandate. And 2010 wasn't so long ago that there is some suggestion that America is lurching hurriedly left. Republicans hold the house, you know, and Democrats are already expressing concern about the Senate in 2014. They should because once the majority of Americans begin to feel the heat should Obamacare move forward, they will be in trouble. I say the fate of Obamacare will actually be decided by the administration and how their chances look in 2014, the year following the first major elements of Obamacare implementation.

I hope I have answered your question. I do not personally dislike Obama; I don't know him personally. I don't like his policies. I would feel the same way if he were white, brown, green... or if he were a woman or some wild combination heretofore unknown. I lean right, not left. I'm not going to like a President who leans left, regardless of his race, religion, creed, sexual orientation, preference of food, taste in bottled water, etc. It's about policy.

I also see the real world with my own eyes... I live and work in a diverse community with diverse people... I see hard working people of all stripes, and I see leeches sucking the life out of our system, too. Black, white, brown... stood in line at Wal-Mart behind a lovely Asian woman dressed in a stunning outfit yesterday, clutching the most impressive smartphone I have ever seen... and paid for her goods with foodstamps. Don't know her story, true... but it IS odd seeing a person so well-appointed paying with food stamps. Plenty of white trash in the store, too... never a shortage of white trash, so it isn't just a "minority thing" or whatever. Everyone is sucking on the teet a little too much for a little too long. Seriously. And I absolutely believe what Romney said about those voting for "stuff" - which is why they voted for the Magic Stimulus Man. Look, it's true. Those who don't see it may be a little sheltered... my wife's parents are like that. They live in a bubble and have no clue what the rest of us are dealing with. Reality, though, will hit hard and soon enough.

Anyway, I hope, Jane, I've answered your questions. As for others I haven't responded to... I probably won't because I refuse to debate multiple points to multiple people in a single thread. I'm outnumbered here and guys like Max, with all due respect Jane, offer very little support. I disagree with Max most of the time, actually, and am not as high on him as you are. His spine is a bit too soft for me... no offense, Max, if you are hanging around.