2 hours ago, Taoboi said:

But seriously, I feel it will come. And I could see it between those two. I also feel that Dani will be shocked if Hayley was the aggressor for all of a second. Then she's wiping the floor with her. But I expect (with this week's reveal) that will be a superb catfight. 

I definitely want it to be... unexpected when it happens. I imagine one of them walking towards the other... and just LOSING it... without us even having the time to take a breath. I want to feel shocked! That's the beauty of the good catfight. I would hate if it was too staged and fake. And I hope to GOD they don't use these artificial sounding fight sounds... that soaps love to use. The fake slap and fake punch music effects. I want it to feel REAL. And be memorable. If we are going to go there... go there ALL THE WAY. 

6 minutes ago, Maxim said:

The only aspect I would say is basic... is the dialogue. (When it comes to certain writers)hat definitely needs MORE WORK. But it's not such a significant issue that they can't resolve it if they choose to. Keyword - choose. I hope they are aware they need to improve it. 

I agree with this. I think there's a noticeable difference in style and tone with some writers, especially when it comes to using current vernacular or slang.

Some writers lean into it heavily, while others stay away from it. That doesn't work. At times the slang seems to be forced and overdone. That doesn't work. The consistency among writers isn't there.

We dropped Paramount+ and don't have cable, so I'm stuck a week behind on Pluto TV. I'm sure it's been said already, but I've been so impressed by the young man playing Donnell, who is doing a phenomenal job after being thrown into such a big, emotional storyline. 

Which makes some of the other casting of young people on the show such a head scratcher. It's like half of them are rising stars, and the other half are dead weight. I just don't get why they are clinging to certain people. 

I do think the show has been improving over the past few weeks. My biggest gripe (other than the casting issue) has been story threads that seemed to be totally dropped, even forgotten. But looks like they're starting to deal with some of these things now. 

13 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

I know I must sound schizophrenic, because I've been so critical of different elements on BTG, but now I want to defend it

I don't understand the "simplicity" accusation and I don't understand how there's a lack of complexity. Without examples, I can't get on board with either of those.

What plots on the other soaps are complex? The business stories mess on Y&R? Who's married to Ridge this week on B&B? The Sophia baby daddy story on DAYS? The "no one pays for murder" stories on GH?

I'm not trying to be difficult. Like all soaps, BTG has plenty of problems, but I don't see how complexity is one of them.

A) I'm not watching any other soap currently. I get the same feeling from BTG that I did from GH, which I tried sticking with for years for Maura West. Port Charles was a huge sucking black hole revolving around Sonny.

B ) The best I can explain it is this---it's a huge problem that after (what?) nine months, these characters are still bouncing from emotion to emotion per the plot. When I don't believe that Nicole loved Ted anymore than Leslie/Dana did---the writers haven't done their job. Characters don't seem to feel conflicted, no matter how much they tell me they do. One second Vanessa is moaning how much she loved Doug, the next she's bitching Joey is dumping her because he needs the thrill of screwing someone else's wife. Chelsea fell for Madison in about two days to give StalkerGirl someone to feel threatened by. The "big mysteries" of what happened to Martin to give him nightmares and The Articulettes breakup were wrapped up in a couple of messy weeks. And BINGO, they're no longer problems. (Leslie getting that trust fund and buying the house across the road to annoy everyone isn't as much a "problem" as a contrivance.) 

Stories don't feel like they intersect. How has finding out about a new sister impacted Martin and Kat's relationship? Has their parents' breakup affected their other relationships? *shrug* I don't know. The biggest point of Chelsea's kidnapping seems to be that Martin now owes Joey "a favor". While Eva and Kat occasionally hiss at each other, the only one it really seems to affect a wee bit is Ted. Oh, and the block of wood known as Tomas, who doesn't seem conflicted at all about screwing half-sisters.

I know these are weak examples, but when nothing really "sticks", it's the best I can do.

And btw, maybe I'm just too old, and too unhip, but the constant slang annoys me. By all means, be modern. But if I hear "bougie" one more time, or "Articulette Strong" (if "anything strong" was a thing back in the 70's, I missed it.) or DMV (which I had to google), I might throw something at the tv (which I know is also old-school).

15 minutes ago, P.J. said:

A) I'm not watching any other soap currently. I get the same feeling from BTG that I did from GH, which I tried sticking with for years for Maura West. Port Charles was a huge sucking black hole revolving around Sonny.

B ) The best I can explain it is this---it's a huge problem that after (what?) nine months, these characters are still bouncing from emotion to emotion per the plot. When I don't believe that Nicole loved Ted anymore than Leslie/Dana did---the writers haven't done their job. Characters don't seem to feel conflicted, no matter how much they tell me they do. One second Vanessa is moaning how much she loved Doug, the next she's bitching Joey is dumping her because he needs the thrill of screwing someone else's wife. Chelsea fell for Madison in about two days to give StalkerGirl someone to feel threatened by. The "big mysteries" of what happened to Martin to give him nightmares and The Articulettes breakup were wrapped up in a couple of messy weeks. And BINGO, they're no longer problems. (Leslie getting that trust fund and buying the house across the road to annoy everyone isn't as much a "problem" as a contrivance.) 

Stories don't feel like they intersect. How has finding out about a new sister impacted Martin and Kat's relationship? Has their parents' breakup affected their other relationships? *shrug* I don't know. The biggest point of Chelsea's kidnapping seems to be that Martin now owes Joey "a favor". While Eva and Kat occasionally hiss at each other, the only one it really seems to affect a wee bit is Ted. Oh, and the block of wood known as Tomas, who doesn't seem conflicted at all about screwing half-sisters.

I know these are weak examples, but when nothing really "sticks", it's the best I can do.

And btw, maybe I'm just too old, and too unhip, but the constant slang annoys me. By all means, be modern. But if I hear "bougie" one more time, or "Articulette Strong" (if "anything strong" was a thing back in the 70's, I missed it.) or DMV (which I had to google), I might throw something at the tv (which I know is also old-school).

I thought you explained that very well. And YES to Sonny being the center of the universe on GH to a very extremely fault. I don't find the examples weak either, though I do feel like some of those things have been touched on more than others.

 

Personally, I feel like the only story so far that has gotten a beginning, a middle, and an end has been the Articulate story. It even had a little build before an abrupt stop before the middle kicked in. And it got a resolution in Anita mending fences with the girls and they are off doing a tour. And there could even be a return to it at any time due to Devon wanting to make that deal on remastering the tracks. 

I think the Articulate story was meant to give some backstory/focus on Anita.. to show that she wasn't the influential person she made herself out to be, and also to provide a sort of karma to Anita by way of SPS.  

And I think the Martin/Smitty situation was too quickly resolved with the two getting back together without solving any of the issues that put them in the situations they were in.  Although it is realistic that people break up/reunite.. rinse/lather/repeat (ala Brittani and Jared on RHOSLC), but it can get annoying after awhile.

Also I was venturing onto Threads/Instragram.. and peeps were wondering/gossiping about Hayley and debating on what is coming next and how excited they were.  Most were also anti-Naomi and thought Jacob is a saint to put up with her LOL 

Power of social media

Edited October 18Oct 18 by Soaplovers

I think compared to B&B or most of the last 25 years of DAYS (and no, we're not gauging it just by  the last 13 weeks) this show looks like a MENSA convention.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Which makes some of the other casting of young people on the show such a head scratcher. It's like half of them are rising stars, and the other half are dead weight. I just don't get why they are clinging to certain people. 

That's a lot of soap operas any day of the week tbh. But Tomas needs to go yesterday, along with Ashley and Derek.

53 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I know these are weak examples, but when nothing really "sticks", it's the best I can do.

Your examples aren't weak, and you explained your point very well. I can't disagree with anything you said, and it's clear that my only disagreement is using the words simplicity and complexity.

 

55 minutes ago, P.J. said:

And btw, maybe I'm just too old, and too unhip, but the constant slang annoys me. By all means, be modern. But if I hear "bougie" one more time, or "Articulette Strong" (if "anything strong" was a thing back in the 70's, I missed it.) or DMV (which I had to google), I might throw something at the tv (which I know is also old-school).

You're not too old or unhip -- unless I am, too. I've been bothered by the way slang is incorporated into dialogue from the beginning. We've had scripts where characters like Kat, Samantha, Chelsea, or Eva include slang in every other line -- followed by scripts from other writers that are devoid of anything modern/urban/current.

I commented here about "Articulettes Strong" the first time it was used. It's a complete anachronism, and I cannot believe they keep returning to it.

 

30 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Also I was venturing onto Threads/Instragram. Most were also anti-Naomi and thought Jacob is a saint to put up with her LOL 

That's where I am with Naomi. She's upset and angry, but I'm tired of her lashing out at Jacob, who's been calm and reasonable with her. I've said it repeatedly: Don't want a baby? Then get an abortion. There's NO ONE stopping her or trying to stop her.

53 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 

Also I was venturing onto Threads/Instragram.. and peeps were wondering/gossiping about Hayley and debating on what is coming next and how excited they were.  Most were also anti-Naomi and thought Jacob is a saint to put up with her LOL 

Power of social media

YES. People are so excited about her. The Hamilton Widow is THE MOMENT. All eyes are on her... now it depends what she does NEXT (what they write her to do) that will make or break the magic. She is a water cooler soap moment that needs to be touched with velvet gloves right now. She could really improve ratings if done right. We don't want a Leslie 2 (one is enough for this show)... and we don't want her to climax (in terms of story) too fast. THE LONG GAME should be their RULE NUMBER 1. 

On paper, a lot of this should work. Nicole feels like a classic heroine, and I've warmed up to Dani and Bill (a little bit). Eva vs. Kat could drive stories for years. 

BTG feels like it's working too hard and lacking focus. 

Just now, P.J. said:

On paper, a lot of this should work. Nicole feels like a classic heroine, and I've warmed up to Dani and Bill (a little bit). Eva vs. Kat could drive stories for years. 

BTG feels like it's working too hard and lacking focus. 

At times... it does feel that way. Indeed. But lately it's improving RAPIDLY. We just need to freshen up the dialogue and I'm good to go. 

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I think compared to B&B or most of the last 25 years of DAYS (and no, we're not gauging it just by  the last 13 weeks) this show looks like a MENSA convention.

Agreed!  And I'd take it a step or two further -- compared to B&B, DAYS, Y&R, and GH, this show looks like a MENSA convention. And I'm happy about that.  BTG doesn't write down to the audience.  BTG doesn't seem to be written for junior-high girls -- it's written for anyone who enjoys this type of drama. 

Is BTG perfect?  Not by a long-shot.  But at least it provides a compelling story five-days a week, written for grown-ass adults.  

8 minutes ago, Tisy-Lish said:

BTG doesn't write down to the audience.  BTG doesn't seem to be written for junior-high girls -- it's written for anyone who enjoys this type of drama. 

I think BTG has a lot of issues with the day to day dialogue vs. something like GH. BTG often sounds very much like the purely expository artificial flavor of B&B; sort of an offshoot of the classic Bell style or even Irna Phillips, but that can be very creaky today. It fluctuates wildly between dialogue being hyper-modern (and sometimes tryhard or lapsing into therapyspeak) and super classical like the above, which while messy is an interesting mix historically in and of itself.

That being said I do think the dialogue and dynamics have leveled up a lot over the last several weeks, and I think the stories certainly have overall. For example, Hayley is not going to last forever. She's a villain scheming to kill Bill and take his money. That's an old soap staple and we know where it ends. It's a good story but it has an expiration date. If I had to bet, Leslie is the classical long-running soap villain/antagonist we know and Hayley is the more lethal one who we didn't see coming. Sooner or later Hayley's going to get carted off, maybe for good, maybe to return for stints. Hanging the show off her is not gonna happen, nor does it need to. They have plenty going for them as is with Eva/Kat, Nicole, Andre/Dani/Bill, etc. They just need to hone the show mercilessly and make cuts to the cast and get much more consistent with the dialogue. Like any new soap.

Edited October 19Oct 19 by Vee

Whether the show deserves credit or not, I'm now going to applaud the set of Bill and Haley's living room.

I've complained for over 8 months about how tacky and junky it looks. Now I'm thinking it's intentional because Hayley is cheap and she's a thug, and her taste is bad... really bad. 

Nothing about their place screams class and elegance, because Hayley has none.