11 minutes ago, Maxim said:

I'm going to say something that may be unpopular too... but Dani is as annoying if not more than Hayley. And I'm not saying this as a negative. It's great-annoying. She is just so used to being on top of everyone all the time, it's nice to see her fake world shatter. I know this may be different to a lot of people's impression of her as this "victim" of Bill's. But she lost me with her words to her mother... that it was because this affair was so public and in front of other people... that she cares so much. That's a shallow person right there. Hayley and Dani are alike in so many ways... you are not surprised that once they were friends. 

Dani reminds me of an Erica Kane or Sami Brady. She's an over the top diva who does many questionable things so it can be difficult to feel sorry for her even when she's wronged. On the flip side with Hayley, she reminds me of a early Jill Abbott or Brooke Logan. She comes across as naive and innocent but still the decisions she makes are wrong and she needs to take accountability for that. 

I love that both of them are so complicated because it makes it more interesting to watch. I feel like these types of characters are sorely missing from the other soaps these days and things tend to be black and white. 

1 hour ago, Sapounopera said:

My question might be stupid...

We know that the 80s soaps were inspired by the glitzy primetime soaps.

90s soaps were inspired by the Spelling soaps abd JER.

After watching a week of BTG, what would you inspired the show storywise and/or aesthetically? 

I'm sticking with my "new creatures" theory. So, no comparison, breath of fresh air, NuSoap IOW, NuAesthetic ... 

42 minutes ago, Sapounopera said:

I have never watched shows like Greenleaf or Queen Sugar. Does BTG have that vibe?

I was a huge fan of Greenleaf & to me the only thing reminiscent is the audio of the opening.

True they both have that family dynasty (not the primetime soap) but Greenleaf is so much about religion & sin & reckoning. BTG is not. 

39 minutes ago, Maxim said:

I'm going to say something that may be unpopular too... but Dani is as annoying if not more than Hayley. And I'm not saying this as a negative. It's great-annoying. She is just so used to being on top of everyone all the time, it's nice to see her fake world shatter. I know this may be different to a lot of people's impression of her as this "victim" of Bill's. But she lost me with her words to her mother... that it was because this affair was so public and in front of other people... that she cares so much. That's a shallow person right there. Hayley and Dani are alike in so many ways... you are not surprised that once they were friends. 

It's unpopular with me. And, I don't get the impression that Hayley & Dani were friends. Now, friends with Dani's daughters, yes, there I see it. Hayley could be Dani's daughter. They are not contemporaries. Finally, Dani hasn't lost me, no, she is still my 2nd favorite, after Anita. This reminds me I want to rank characters again. 

20 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

It's unpopular with me. And, I don't get the impression that Hayley & Dani were friends. Now, friends with Dani's daughters, yes, there I see it. Hayley could be Dani's daughter. They are not contemporaries. Finally, Dani hasn't lost me, no, she is still my 2nd favorite, after Anita. This reminds me I want to rank characters again. 

Maybe we are watching a different soap, me and you. Who knows. I have the EXACT memory Dani told Hayley in episode 1 - "I thought we were close too, so did Naomi. We opened our hearts for the poor orphan girl... and made a place for you at our table." That to me IS FRIENDS with someone, that doesn't mean that Hayley can't be best friends with Naomi. I've had friends that are ALSO friends with my mother in the past, LOL.

I have never stated they are contemporaries. I just got the exact impression that Hayley was liked and friends with the entire family. Period. To a point that Dani wanted her to work with her husband. Will Dani do that to someone she is not at least friendly with? Hayley and Dani have history and that's the most shocking moment of it. Getting betrayed by someone you took in as a friend of the family is... just disgusting.

And I think you are taking the "lost me" too directly. I meant more metaphorically... not that she "lost" me as a fan, but that her vanity and shallowness started coming through for me in that moment. I am not really a person that likes to rank characters very much, but maybe I can try later. I get that people are starting to develop hardcore favorites... but there should be tolerance to hear other more negative opinions. I'm not saying you don't. This is more "in general" thought. 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Maxim said:

 I get that people are starting to develop hardcore favorites... but there should be tolerance to hear other more negative opinions. I'm not saying you don't. This is more "in general" thought. 

Amen! Some people seem to take it as a personal insult when you happen to criticize one of their favourites, while they themselves have no problem doing the same to other characters.

3 minutes ago, Maxim said:

Maybe we are watching a different soap, me and you. Who knows. I have the EXACT memory Dani told Hayley in episode 1 - "I thought we were close too, so did Naomi. We opened our hearts for the poor orphan girl... and made a place for you at our table." That to me IS FRIENDS with someone, that doesn't mean that Hayley can't be best friends with Naomi. I've had friends that are ALSO friends with my mother in the past, LOL.

I have never stated they are contemporaries. I just got the exact impression that Hayley was liked and friends with the entire family. Period. To a point that Dani wanted her to work with her husband. Will Dani do that to someone she is not at least friendly with? Hayley and Dani have history and that's the most shocking moment of it. Getting betrayed by someone you took in as a friend of the family is... just disgusting.

And I think you are taking the "lost me" too directly. I meant more metaphorically... not that she "lost" me as a fan, but that her vanity and shallowness started coming through for me in that moment. I am not really a person that likes to rank characters very much, but maybe I can try later. I get that people are starting to develop hardcore favorites... but there should be tolerance to hear other more negative opinions. I'm not saying you don't. This is more "in general" thought. 

Oh, there's basically no way that Dani won't have detractors. It almost comes with the territory. The  kind of character who provokes strong reactions, feelings, etc. 

And, I agree that she & Hayley were friends in the sense you describe. I was speaking more about her best friends, which I think probably was her contemporaries. 

No, I understood what you meant. Dani is complicated & part of that in her is def shallowness. This is a woman who left home at 16 & became a high fashion model. Superficial things were lifeblood to her. 

Completely agree about both favorites emerging as well as ?? anti-favorites??

You got me started on this Olympic  judges type of scoring, ranking, etc. So now you're just going to have to put up with it from me. 

 

10 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Oh, there's basically no way that Dani won't have detractors. It almost comes with the territory. The  kind of character who provokes strong reactions, feelings, etc. 

And, I agree that she & Hayley were friends in the sense you describe. I was speaking more about her best friends, which I think probably was her contemporaries. 

No, I understood what you meant. Dani is complicated & part of that in her is def shallowness. This is a woman who left home at 16 & became a high fashion model. Superficial things were lifeblood to her. 

Completely agree about both favorites emerging as well as ?? anti-favorites??

You got me started on this Olympic  judges type of scoring, ranking, etc. So now you're just going to have to put up with it from me. 

 

OK, so now you do agree that they were friends...??? I am getting little confused, since you gave me the exact opposite statement minutes ago... when you said - 

51 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

It's unpopular with me. And, I don't get the impression that Hayley & Dani were friends. 

And I've never stated that Dani and Hayley were best friends. The comment you found unpopular contained the words - "not surprised that once they were friends."  

 

Edited March 2Mar 2 by Maxim

16 minutes ago, dragonflies said:

She had intent, and no one was stopping her. Love it so much.

18 minutes ago, I Am A Swede said:

Amen! Some people seem to take it as a personal insult when you happen to criticize one of their favourites, while they themselves have no problem doing the same to other characters.

Yup. We don't need this constant... back and forth. Even though sometimes it can be fun, especially if you trigger someone that can't differentiate between characters and actors... (that's a whole other circus right there) BUT it's mostly boring to constantly have to explain yourself. To explain that you mean no harm, you are just disliking a freaking fictional character. It's 2025, people should grow some balls and learn that some opinions are meant to be negative. Not everything can be "positive, nice and happy".

I agree completely with this

 

 

ABC, Hulu, and Peacock better just begin creating new soaps at this point since Beyond The Gates received a 100 on Rotten Tomatoes, Karla Mosley earned Best Performer of the Week, and Beyond The Gates: Welcome to the Neighborhood beat out some shows #BeyondTheGates #SoapGenre

— Donald Peebles Jr. (@DonaldJrPeebles) March 2, 2025

2 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

My question might be stupid...

We know that the 80s soaps were inspired by the glitzy primetime soaps.

90s soaps were inspired by the Spelling soaps abd JER.

After watching a week of BTG, what would you inspired the show storywise and/or aesthetically? 

 

2 hours ago, Sapounopera said:

I have never watched shows like Greenleaf or Queen Sugar. Does BTG have that vibe?

 

2 hours ago, Chris B said:

I know people will throw tomatoes at me for saying this but I could find some comparisons to Ambitions which MVJ also had a hand in. 

I think this is Michele Val Jean's vision, so not really inspired by other shows.  Also Sheila Ducksworth said she'd dreamed of a Black soap for decades and was finally introduced to Michele Val Jean.

I've never seen Greenleaf.

I did watch all of Queen Sugar and this isn't really like that, but I imagine there might be a few serious scenes at some point that explore things deeply like Queen Sugar did.
 

BTG reminds me somewhat of the shortlived primetime soap "Promised Land" about about the Latine wealthy California winery Sandoval family, and their secrets.

The major difference is that Promised Land periodically showed scenes from prior decades to enrich the story and show character progression, jumping around in time like "This Is Us".  This factored in when scandals were revealed.

I was disappointed when Promised Land was cancelled. The characters drew me in.

("Promised Land". Not to be confused with "The Promised Land".)
It ran for one 10-episode season on ABC. It was on Hulu, but not sure if it's still there..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promised_Land_(2022_TV_series)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anneeaston/2022/01/23/wine-soaked-power-struggles-permeate-latino-family-drama-series-promised-land/

Fyi, "Promised Land" reminded me a bit of "Ambitions" with a few of the tropes, but was much, much, better and subtler.
I liked Ambitions but I think Robin Givens' performance wasn't layered enough -- some of that may have been due to her acting, and some may have been due to Jamey Giddens' writing.

Michele Val Jean had a producer credit on Ambitions but I don't think she wrote any of it.

Edited March 2Mar 2 by janea4old

28 minutes ago, janea4old said:

 

Michele Val Jean had a producer credit on Ambitions but I don't think she wrote any of it.

She did write for it and even pitched stories. I remember Jamey shouting them out throughout the series for stories they'd pitched during the series. 

51 minutes ago, Maxim said:

OK, so now you do agree that they were friends...??? I am getting little confused, since you gave me the exact opposite statement minutes ago... when you said - 

And I've never stated that Dani and Hayley were best friends. The comment you found unpopular contained the words - "not surprised that once they were friends."  

 

There's not really a problem. 

3 minutes ago, Chris B said:

She did write for it and even pitched stories. I remember Jamey shouting them out throughout the series for stories they'd pitched during the series. 

Thank you.  Whoops, I should have looked it up before posting!

44 minutes ago, Maxim said:

Yup. We don't need this constant... back and forth.

Talking on message boards is of necessity back & forth. But, there's really no need for it to be a problem. I very plainly said that I could see them as friends in the sense that you described & I added that I had been looking more at "best friends". 

So, if it's a problem, then my advice to you is scroll on by. That's what I've been taught. Personally I enjoy lively discussion.

49 minutes ago, Maxim said:

 Not everything can be "positive, nice and happy".

And, I'm sure you saw what I said about Dani having detractors ...