@Planet Soap I don't think I could deny the whole buildup to the "break" was extremely effective, and difficult to watch. The music cues alone were terrifying.

Unfortunately, for me the most terrifying part of those segments remains Kirsta Tesreau as Tina.

23 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

What was also interesting is how immediately Malone's team went into the DID story, how early they were hinting at sexual abuse, And how early they hinted Viki killed Victor. The day after Sloan's death Vicky had a dream where The man she was kissing transformed from Sloan into her father, And she had a dream that she was "smothering" Dorian.

Those dreams were not that early at all. Sloan died in early '95 IIRC and Viki's alters broke out very quickly after in February, I believe. The Victor/Dorian case revisit had been going for at least a year if not longer, but they had been slowly having it percolate since Sloan's arrival in '92 because of his fascination with Victor Lord. I can't recall exactly when it hit high gear but it was only after Robin Strasser came back in spring(?) '93, maybe 6-12 months after that.

Erika and Agnes Nixon can think what they like, but when I started watching as a kid and they began broaching the issue of Victor, who it was clear Viki idolized, I knew something was off from the jump in how everyone talked about this dead man and this was long before any dreams or the like. They were very clever and subtle initially, but I had watched Twin Peaks with my mother so I was primed to be suspicious. I never spoke it aloud but I was not shocked when the truth came out, only shocked that they'd gone there. It was inevitable to me.

Edited November 23, 20241 yr by Vee

9 minutes ago, Vee said:

Those dreams were not that early at all. Sloan died in early '95 IIRC and Viki's alters broke out very quickly after in February, I believe. The Victor/Dorian case revisit had been going for at least a year if not longer, but they had been slowly having it percolate since Sloan's arrival in '92 because of his fascination with Victor Lord. I can't recall exactly when it hit high gear but it was only after Robin Strasser came back in spring(?) '93, maybe 6-12 months after that.

I think for a while Viki didn't want to go as heavily against Dorian for killing Victor and then something pushed her to go with what Sloan wanted - maybe Dorian paying Emily Haynes to say Sloan harassed her (?).

Dorian was written as such a gorgon for the whole story up to the trial. I can see where Robin wasn't thrilled.

4 hours ago, Vee said:

LOL, maybe I'll look it up in the Wayback Machine. They did have some horny-ass scenes though. I think we saw some of their mostly naked wedding night or honeymoon.

If you find his old columns let me know! I would love to reread them.

 

32 minutes ago, Planet Soap said:

Erica Slezak even expressed that the original Victor actor would have turned over it his grave if he knew what the character became. She also said it was unfathomable that the original idea of Victor with sexually abuse his daughter.

To play devil's advocate, aren't predators often the people you least expect? After all, people used to think that clergymen could never abuse children. I have only seen snippets of Victor Lord, but the way Dorian explained Victor's abuse of Viki - that he used her as a surrogate of her late mother - seemed very plausible. It tracks with how Victor used Viki as a surrogate for the male heir that he (thought he) never had.

1 hour ago, Alan said:

If you find his old columns let me know! I would love to reread them.

 

To play devil's advocate, aren't predators often the people you least expect? After all, people used to think that clergymen could never abuse children. I have only seen snippets of Victor Lord, but the way Dorian explained Victor's abuse of Viki - that he used her as a surrogate of her late mother - seemed very plausible. It tracks with how Victor used Viki as a surrogate for the male heir that he (thought he) never had.

Overall I liked the 95 DID story, even if it  further destroyed Victor Lord Sr. IIRC One of the reasons for the story was research that DID produces more than one alter and is typically resultant of childhood sexual abuse. In that case, I get why they tried to correct the science by adding multiple altars and a sex abuse backstory.

It tracked with me as the show had spent like 15 years or more laying clues they could build from. The secret room, Irene and Tina, and especially the Niki Smith story when Tina’s paternity was revealed. Go back and watch those scenes with the letter. Viki is unhinged by facing her father’s secrets. It isn’t that large a leap to go with DID from childhood sexual abuse in-story.

For people watching when he actually aired, probably a difficult story turn to reconcile.

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

It tracked with me as the show had spent like 15 years or more laying clues they could build from. The secret room, Irene and Tina, and especially the Niki Smith story when Tina’s paternity was revealed. Go back and watch those scenes with the letter. Viki is unhinged by facing her father’s secrets. It isn’t that large a leap to go with DID from childhood sexual abuse in-story.

Exactly. Ater all the lies and philandering secrets already layered onto him by that point, it was not off-brand.

Pam Long---Reva marrying and getting pregnant by HB. Surely there had to be another trigger to send Josh crashing into that damn tree. It was just a layer of southern gothic via V.C Andrews that was gross.

On 11/23/2024 at 10:56 AM, P.J. said:

Pam Long---Reva marrying and getting pregnant by HB. Surely there had to be another trigger to send Josh crashing into that damn tree. It was just a layer of southern gothic via V.C Andrews that was gross.

But somehow...it worked. Long was intending for H.B. and Bert to get together..but with Charita off screen for the amputation and then Bert's amputation storyline...they had to do something with H.B. and Gates and Zimmer had chemistry. At first there was no sex but I think Long set it up nicely after Billy and Josh humiliating her at the party that she wanted to be comforted by H.B. and well, Reva is Reva she can't go for a cuddle. The pregnancy was a bit..much.

Long had far worse mistakes like turning Van into a boring hausfrau hooked on pills and running a pregger Reva over. 

5 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

But somehow...it worked. Long was intending for H.B. and Bert to get together..but with Charita off screen for the amputation and then Bert's amputation storyline...they had to do something with H.B. and Gates and Zimmer had chemistry. At first there was no sex but I think Long set it up nicely after Billy and Josh humiliating her at the party that she wanted to be comforted by H.B. and well, Reva is Reva she can't go for a cuddle. The pregnancy was a bit..much.

Long had far worse mistakes like turning Van into a boring hausfrau hooked on pills and running a pregger Reva over. 

HB and Bert? Oy vey...

The only reason to have Vanessa hooked on pills was to rid Reva of that child. Vanessa's addiction disappears almost as quickly as it started. Billy was volatile enough that between learning Reva had schemed with Alan and Josh being paralyzed, he would've had plenty of motivation to hate on Reva that summer, at least imo. 

9 hours ago, P.J. said:

HB and Bert? Oy vey...

The only reason to have Vanessa hooked on pills was to rid Reva of that child. Vanessa's addiction disappears almost as quickly as it started. Billy was volatile enough that between learning Reva had schemed with Alan and Josh being paralyzed, he would've had plenty of motivation to hate on Reva that summer, at least imo. 

I think Bert and H.B. might have been...interesting? 

Agreed on Billy, and I love the Billy who hated on Reva...when he became big teddy bear Billy, Reva Fan no 1 I lost interest.

 

 

8 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

I think Bert and H.B. might have been...interesting? 

Agreed on Billy, and I love the Billy who hated on Reva...when he became big teddy bear Billy, Reva Fan no 1 I lost interest.

 

 

Now...Bert and Henry, sure. God love HB, but at that time, he was a PITA, neglectful and manipulative father. Bert wouldn't have fit in with the Lewises at all.

The whitewash job on Reva was fast and furious. Billy never should've been made to kiss her ass. He always should've been able to call her on her sh#t.

On 11/25/2024 at 7:11 PM, Mitch64 said:

Long had far worse mistakes like turning Van into a boring hausfrau hooked on pills and running a pregger Reva over. 

 

18 hours ago, P.J. said:

The only reason to have Vanessa hooked on pills was to rid Reva of that child. Vanessa's addiction disappears almost as quickly as it started. Billy was volatile enough that between learning Reva had schemed with Alan and Josh being paralyzed, he would've had plenty of motivation to hate on Reva that summer, at least imo. 

The pill story ends up getting greater stature than likely intended at the time as it was edited into the 50th anniversary special's package on "social issues," as we hear Vanessa talking about how she relies on pills while we see some scene of her looking catatonic. I haven't dived heavily into that period but for a long time I thought it must have been a bigger story than it was. At least they found good clips to showcase Maeve. 

28 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

The pill story ends up getting greater stature than likely intended at the time as it was edited into the 50th anniversary special's package on "social issues," as we hear Vanessa talking about how she relies on pills while we see some scene of her looking catatonic. I haven't dived heavily into that period but for a long time I thought it must have been a bigger story than it was. At least they found good clips to showcase Maeve. 

Yeah, Vanessa's addiction is mostly an answer to a trivia question. Maeve did the best she could with what was there. I believe she got a supporting actress nomination for it.

13 hours ago, P.J. said:

Now...Bert and Henry, sure. God love HB, but at that time, he was a PITA, neglectful and manipulative father. Bert wouldn't have fit in with the Lewises at all.

The whitewash job on Reva was fast and furious. Billy never should've been made to kiss her ass. He always should've been able to call her on her sh#t.

Well, Henry as a "companion" as even Bert saw that he was gay...poor Bea..having to date someone 20 years her senior who had no interest in women (God only knows where Van and Quint came from!) 

The white washing of Reva, while Long did indulge in it some, wasn't hard and heavy until Rauch/B &E where you thought Reva was Bert Bauer. Long had Billy and Reva calling each other out, which is what made the dynamic interesting. You had Josh who was obsessed with her, H.B. who doted on her, and Billy who saw her pretty much as she was, which really made it interesting. Post Resurrection Reva was worshiped by every Lewis man and well, the entire town (well, expect Dinah, I wish I had her "Oh Reva, just SHUT UP!" clip.) 

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I haven't dived heavily into that period but for a long time I thought it must have been a bigger story than it was.

It was weird, Van was a spitfire and her and Billy'd dynamic was great..and then they got married, she quit Spaulding, and walked around the house in shoulder pads and big hair tending to all the Lewis men. Then they threw this addiction story on her, which given her "retro" history, I could see..(having given Dinah up, she becomes obsessed with Little Billy ) gut Dinah didn't exist at that time. Also, if they wrote it that she was bored out of her freaking mind being a stay at home mom, and subjecting herself to Billy and H.B.'s bombast, I could go with it, but of course, they didn't do that. It made no sense and was never mentioned again.  Poor Maeve...then the exciting next story they gave her was being Ross's...secretary???? Vanessa a secretary???

Edited November 27, 20241 yr by Mitch64