On 2/8/2024 at 8:11 AM, Donna L. Bridges said:

Okay, finally got the equivalency. Thanks to a GL & Venice fan who is part of #BirdTwitter. 

May 30, 1984 Steve & Betsy wed on ATWT. A 7.8 rating where each point equals 849,000 people comes to 6,662,200 people so really way below the "lie" of 20 million & well below Doug & Julie's 16 million, too! If anyone wants to check my math I will not be offended. 

Just to clarify this one, this is households not people/viewers. The amount of viewers may have been higher. Even with two people per household you'd have around 13M viewers. Nielsen didn't give viewer/audience estimates until a bit later. Nielsen households was actually 6,540,000 for that week. Not sure why the number is different.

So it depends on what the viewer estimate per household is. Say it was 2 per household and the show scored 9 - 12M per day for four days and 20M one day, it is possible it averaged 13M viewers for the week. 

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by will81

6 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I'm not sure why you are stating that Kathy on SFT had an abortion in Sept 1970. Kathy was not even on the show until 1971. 

Yes, from the scripts I have of SFT, Kathy appeared around mid-1971. She was not even in a relationship with Scott at the fall, slowly flirting so abortion must have happened in 1972, way after AMC's Erica's.

2 hours ago, FrenchFan said:

Yes, from the scripts I have of SFT, Kathy appeared around mid-1971. She was not even in a relationship with Scott at the fall, slowly flirting so abortion must have happened in 1972, way after AMC's Erica's.

Okay, I can tell you where I got it from. I put the information we had uncovered on the SFT discussion thread here & asked if anyone could date it & a poster answered very confidently that they were sure it was 1970-71. Later I put together all of our information & posted in that thread, which can be seen here. 

But, if it is 1971 instead of 1970 then I am happy to accept that change & glad of new information. Before I brought it to this SON thread & asked for a date I had the Daytime TV mag info & had communicated with Courtney Sherman Simon who was the first to mention 1971 & who was positively sure that her character had had an abortion & that it was before AMC's but of course she had no tangible evidence to prove what she remembered. I suppose we can search the SFT discussion thread to find out what poster told me 1970-1971 if you think we need to. And, it all began with a poster in my forum who said he remembered Kathy having an abortion before AMC's Erica did. And, the reason we were discussing it was because of the Y&R primetime special's allegation that Ashley had the first. It may have been you who posted in reply to my query. 

And in fact, you can see here that what we stated was 1971, month unknown, and the other day I was going off the top of my head & just grabbed the first date that was in my head, which I got from a valued SFT poster here on SON. I don't think we have an argument if we can agree on SFT Kathy's abortion in some unknown month in 1971. If somehow someone here can narrow that down to a month, all the better. I know that I cannot come up with a month either from Lance Jackson or from Courtney Sherman Simon or from the dedicated Daytime TV mag. Courtney Sherman Simon even emailed the writer but he did not reply.

 

3 hours ago, will81 said:

Just to clarify this one, this is households not people/viewers. The amount of viewers may have been higher. Even with two people per household you'd have around 13M viewers. Nielsen didn't give viewer/audience estimates until a bit later. Nielsen households was actually 6,540,000 for that week. Not sure why the number is different.

So it depends on what the viewer estimate per household is. Say it was 2 per household and the show scored 9 - 12M per day for four days and 20M one day, it is possible it averaged 13M viewers for the week. 

And, that post of mine that is quoted here is behind the times as Jason47 did an explanation of how & why the 20 million figure may very well have been accurate & that can be found in this thread & also in the "Ratings of" thread that applies to it. 

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by Donna L. Bridges

At least it's after September 1971 for sure as I have scripts from this month and Kathy had just met Scott. I have them until late December 1971 so I will check and try to find early 1972 to get real trustable information.

2 minutes ago, FrenchFan said:

At least it's after September 1971 for sure as I have scripts from this month and Kathy had just met Scott. I have them until late December 1971 so I will check and try to find early 1972 to get real trustable information.

Excellent! And, also, thank you for putting your time on this! 

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by Donna L. Bridges
more info

41 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Excellent! And, also, thank you for putting your time on this! 

No problem ! Last episode of 1971 with Kathy and Scott is 12/30/71. They are in New York, Scott had met Kathy's father. Don't think she is pregnant yet. They are dating but I didn't find any mention of pregnancy so I think for sure Kathy would be pregnant and get her abortion in 1972. It would make more sense.

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by FrenchFan

On 2/25/2024 at 9:44 AM, FrenchFan said:

No problem ! Last episode of 1971 with Kathy and Scott is 12/30/71. They are in New York, Scott had met Kathy's father. Don't think she is pregnant yet. They are dating but I didn't find any mention of pregnancy so I think for sure Kathy would be pregnant and get her abortion in 1971. It would make more sense.

What the Daytime TV mag says is this:

Without realizing it Scott and Kathy began to fall in love. Scott and Laurie separated and eventually divorced. But Kathy was liberated and didn't want children. Scott felt she would change her mind. On the day he proposed, Kathy told Scott she had an abortion the day before.

(My bold for emphasis.)

As it stands right now 

AW 1st abortion, illegal, Pat Matthews, no abortion anywhere was legal

AMC an illegal abortion Erica May 1971 

SFT a legal abortion, Kathy Phillips traveled from Henderson to NYC, unknown month 1972

Edited February 27, 20241 yr by Donna L. Bridges
more info

It's kind of ironic that a thread dedicated to clearing up misinformation is doing the opposite.

As French Fan has stated from scripts from Dec 71 Scott and Kathy are growing closer which leads to his marriage proposal sometime in 1972 and her reveal that she had an abortion.

My guess (not factual statement) is that the abortion was downplayed and may not have even been dealt with on air until Kathy's reveal. Which is why it did not receive as much publicity as Erica's. Hopefully the actual dates can be uncovered at some point.

38 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

It's kind of ironic that a thread dedicated to clearing up misinformation is doing the opposite.

Confident inaccuracy is a brand. 

On 2/4/2024 at 10:35 PM, Donna L. Bridges said:

I've just had a thought that has blown my mind. I don't know why I didn't think of it right off the bat. Perhaps you did. We may have an acid test, one named Debbi Morgan. Yes, this requires research. She played Dr. Angie Baxter-Hubbard in order on AMC, then Loving & last on The City. We already knew The City was spun off of Loving but we can now add Loving & AMC as sister soaps to each other. Right? I do not want to coin a new myth but isn't she the only one to have done this? 

I want to say Mitchell Dru would be the first, then Angie Hubbard, then Rae Cummings, and maybe Cass Winthrop. 

1 hour ago, Dr Neil Curtis said:

I want to say Mitchell Dru would be the first, then Angie Hubbard, then Rae Cummings, and maybe Cass Winthrop. 

Excellent. Michell Dru ATWT, TBD & AW; Angie Hubbard AMC, LOV, CITY; Rae all 4 ABC soaps AMC, OLTL, PC & GH & then Cass Winthrop AW, ATWT & GL. Hmm Mike Bauer & Hope Bauer were GL & AW so there's another. Anna & Alex Devane AMC & GH. Skye Chandler AMC & GH. Then Bianca & Babe AMC & OLTL  for the baby swap & crossover where Paul flew the helicopter so he was AMC & OLTL, too. And, current day GH has added Jackson Montgomery AMC & Blair OLTL. 

Then this weekend I saw this. The SOD article talks about Alan Michael smashing up his car & when he got out to survey the damage there was a mile marker signpost showing Springfield, Oakdale & Bay City. 

   

 

On 2/25/2024 at 5:58 PM, Paul Raven said:

It's kind of ironic that a thread dedicated to clearing up misinformation is doing the opposite.

As French Fan has stated from scripts from Dec 71 Scott and Kathy are growing closer which leads to his marriage proposal sometime in 1972 and her reveal that she had an abortion.

My guess (not factual statement) is that the abortion was downplayed and may not have even been dealt with on air until Kathy's reveal. Which is why it did not receive as much publicity as Erica's. Hopefully the actual dates can be uncovered at some point.

I don't think we're doing the opposite as long as we're working toward a common goal of correct information. And this began with Y&R claiming that Ashley had the first abortion. Basically this thread is work product & what matters is the conclusion. Someone else was of the opinion that P&G would've downlplayed it while Agnes would've trumpeted it. Just because P&G was conservative & Agnes was progressive. 

Edited February 27, 20241 yr by Donna L. Bridges

53 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Excellent. Michell Dru ATWT & AW;

Mitchell Dru was also on The Brighter Day.

31 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Mitchell Dru was also on The Brighter Day.

Thanks. I didn't remember that he was. 

Roy Winsor did not create Search for Tomorrow or Love of Life as is often stated in the press as well as soap history books.

Agnes Nixon created SFT and wrote the original 65 episodes (13 weeks). Irving Vendig was called in to replace Agnes and her remaining script, but he couldn't write fast enough, so those ended up airing with his work starting afterwards.

John Hess created Love of Life. He conceived, created, and wrote the initial scripts for LOL prior to it finding a sponsor. John Hess was screwed out of his on-screen creator credit by Roy Winsor. 

Erica Kane is not in the first episode of AMC; she debuts in Episode 10. 

 

 

The dates in soapcentral for early Guiding Light are totally wrong (and they are used in wikipedia too).

For example, Kathy Roberts was said to have been killed off on March 31st 1958 while il happened on February 27th. It was not shown onscreen (she was accidentally pushed by kids into the traffic while on a wheelchair) but Bert called Meta telling her of the accident. Kathy last appeared on February 14th.