On 2/2/2024 at 2:27 PM, BetterForgotten said:

Wouldn’t the fact that they existed in the same universe make them sister soaps alone? Same with GL when Agnes Nixon crossed over Michael and Hope Bauer. 

I've just had a thought that has blown my mind. I don't know why I didn't think of it right off the bat. Perhaps you did. We may have an acid test, one named Debbi Morgan. Yes, this requires research. She played Dr. Angie Baxter-Hubbard in order on AMC, then Loving & last on The City. We already knew The City was spun off of Loving but we can now add Loving & AMC as sister soaps to each other. Right? I do not want to coin a new myth but isn't she the only one to have done this? 

Edited February 5, 20241 yr by Donna L. Bridges

On 2/2/2024 at 3:41 PM, Darn said:

What the hell does sister soaps even mean? Is that just a fancy term for spin-off?

One of my posters on my forum asked Phideaux Xavier (dir, GH) & he said Loving/The City and Ryan's Hope are considered "spin-ons" by the network. I have no idea what that means. And obviously also it is hearsay. 

Edited February 6, 20241 yr by Donna L. Bridges
typos are always with us

On 2/2/2024 at 10:32 AM, Donna L. Bridges said:

I've posted a question on that week's ratings post. The wedding was May 30, 1984. Without knowing how much a rating point equaled at that time we can't calculate the number of people that a 7.8 represents. Someone, maybe Jason, will reply soon. 

But, get this. Today I asked Bing CoPilot which is AI how many people attended the wedding & this was their reply. 

 

Okay, finally got the equivalency. Thanks to a GL & Venice fan who is part of #BirdTwitter. 

May 30, 1984 Steve & Betsy wed on ATWT. A 7.8 rating where each point equals 849,000 people comes to 6,662,200 people so really way below the "lie" of 20 million & well below Doug & Julie's 16 million, too! If anyone wants to check my math I will not be offended. 

On 2/1/2024 at 12:10 PM, Janet Marlowe said:

ATWT getting "20 Million viewers" for that wedding in the '80s.

It never made sense - and seemed so random.

Okay @JAS0N47 has just done an analysis on this rating & blown us out of the water, Definitely it could, probably was, 20 million viewers! 

Quote

 

 

On 2/4/2024 at 12:38 PM, All My Shadows said:

"Fall up the stairs" comes from ATWT, where character Liz Talbot (Betsy's mother) died from a ruptured spleen after "falling up the stairs." It's always been my understanding that she fell while running up the stairs, but describing it as "falling up the stairs" is more quirky/interesting, so that's what the anecdotes stuck with. Another part of the story claims that Irna killed Liz off because she objected to actress Jane House appearing nude onstage in a play, but Liz was already recast to Judith McGilligan by the time she died.

That's right. Liz Stewart fell while running up the stairs, and later died from the injuries she sustained.

Of course, critics have always been wont to mock and denigrate soaps, so they took the opportunity to ridicule ATWT by dishonestly spinning the situation as Liz "falling up the stairs." The character's being hurt while running upstairs is vastly different in meaning than purporting that she died by "falling up the stairs." I doubt the critics who started the myth/lie cared about accurately reporting the incident, and as time went on, the myth became established "fact" to those who didn't know any better.

On 2/4/2024 at 12:38 PM, All My Shadows said:

I was hoping/waiting for someone to ask this question because there is literally no definition of what makes or doesn't make two shows "sister soaps," so any overblown examination of what makes two soaps "sister soaps" is pointless overindulgence. No one is about to wait around for someone to decide what it means in her head so that the rest of us can then have permission to use the term accordingly. As far as I'm concerned, AMC and OLTL are sister soaps, and Loving is their little sister who lived in their shadow. GL and ATWT are sister soaps, and AW is their stepsister by another dad.

I tend to agree. Particularly when characters cross over from  one series to another, I see those shows as being "related," so to speak.

On 2/4/2024 at 12:43 PM, I Am A Swede said:

I read somewhere (I think it was in The Soap Opera Encyclopedia by Gerard J. Waggett) that Irna tried to kill off Liz earlier, for the reason you mentioned, but public outcry made P&G stop her. When Jane House had left the role Irna finished the job.

Yes, Irna wanted to kill off Liz for a while, but P&G originally stopped her. So Ellen Stewart marched into the hospital and saved Liz with a "bottle of hope" (long story, LOL), and Liz survived that first attempt to kill her off.

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by vetsoapfan

On 2/4/2024 at 3:49 PM, soapfan770 said:

The infamous exaggeration that GL went to #1 in 1984 for three weeks. I clearly remember SOD stating that "fact" when doing an in-depth profile on GL in like '97 or '98, and I think it was either Schemering or Waggert (or both) who also wrote about that "fact". What it was as we discovered (and please correct me if I wrong) was GL was simply #1 in its timeslot, not the number one soap in ratings as a whole (Y&R was). 

At various times over the years, Harding Lemay was guilty of this too, claiming that AW went to number one during his tenure, when in actuality, it mainly went to number one IN ITS TIMESLOT.

On 2/4/2024 at 3:49 PM, soapfan770 said:

Y&R: When Carl Williams returned in 1998, I remember there was a number of fans online at the time who claimed they remembered they story of Carl going missing and Paul looking for him. Of course that never happened and with the Carl story being a rare retcon for Y&R at the time, I believed those folks until I later learned otherwise. I have to believe those folks were confused or suffering from the Mandela effect. 

Y&R fans have also long asserted (erroneously) that Paul infected Nikki with an STD. In reality, she gave it to him. (Doug Davidson has jokingly lamented the besmirching of his character's reputation more than once.)

On Another World, fans (and even Harding Lemay) put forward the myth that Pat Matthews killed her first boyfriend, Tom Baxter, by stabbing him. In reality, she shot him. (episodes surrounding the story have surfaced.)

Daytime TV's past is inundated with mistakes and myths, alas.

On 2/4/2024 at 4:25 PM, Michael said:

Hmmmm. Interesting!

The rewrite was so bad that I remember feeling like they might as well have just put up a title card that said, "FORGET ANY OF THIS HAPPENED!" It didn't even make sense within the retcon.

Exactly. The typical atrocious writing was mean-spirited and sadistic, and alienated legions of fans. You don't kill off the show's beloved matriarch by ramming doughnuts down her throat (sick and repugnant). Forgetting any of this dreck ever happened was the best course to take.

4 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

At various times over the years, Harding Lemay was guilty of this too, claiming that AW went to number one during his tenure, when in actuality, it mainly went to number one IN ITS TIMESLOT.

Y&R fans have also long asserted (erroneously) that Paul infected Nikki with an STD. In reality, she gave it to him. (Doug Davidson has jokingly lamented the besmirching of his character's reputation more than once.)

On Another World, fans (and even Harding Lemay) put forward the myth that Pat Matthews killed her first boyfriend, Tom Baxter, by stabbing him. In reality, she shot him. (episodes surrounding the story have surfaced.)

Daytime TV's past is inundated with mistakes and myths, alas.

Exactly. The typical atrocious writing was mean-spirited and sadistic, and alienated legions of fans. You don't kill off the show's beloved matriarch by ramming doughnuts down her throat (sick and repugnant). Forgetting any of this dreck ever happened was the best course to take.

Alice deserved it.

And I have to give JER credit for having the balls to go there.

As a JER first and foremost and a Days fan third (behind Passions), I absolutely loved that storyline.

BTW, Days’ ratings went UP during the Salem Stalker storyline. Clearly people liked it. As far as I’m concerned that was Days’ last great storyline. The show has been a shadow of its former self since Corday forced JER to do Melaswen.

 

On 2/4/2024 at 4:25 PM, Michael said:

Hmmmm. Interesting!

The rewrite was so bad that I remember feeling like they might as well have just put up a title card that said, "FORGET ANY OF THIS HAPPENED!" It didn't even make sense within the retcon.

It didn’t make sense because it wasn’t supposed to happen. The dead were meant to stay dead.

2 hours ago, Lye-C said:

Alice deserved it.

Of course  she did.😉😉😉

2 hours ago, Lye-C said:

As a JER first and foremost and a Days fan third (behind Passions), I absolutely loved that storyline.

We know.

2 hours ago, Lye-C said:

BTW, Days’ ratings went UP during the Salem Stalker storyline. Clearly people liked it. As far as I’m concerned that was Days’ last great storyline. The show has been a shadow of its former self since Corday forced JER to do Melaswen.

🙃

 

Bing CoPilot (AI) when asked what the definition is of a sister soap:

In the context of US daytime soap operas, sister soaps are soap operas 

 

Also I asked a few people in email & the only one who replied was Eddie Drueding & he said that they share the same "parents" when those parents are the HW & the EP. He gave the example of Pete Lemay & Paul Rauch on AW & on Lovers & Friends.

On 2/2/2024 at 4:35 AM, Donna L. Bridges said:

Last year, on the Y&R50 Primetime Celebration 2 incorrect things were claimed. Each of them, to knowledgeable soap fans seem ridiculous! 

1. That Ashley Abbott had the first abortion. Truly laughable. The first was an illegal one, on AW, Pat Matthews. The second is largely unknown, but on SFT Kathy went to NY in 1970 & got an abortion. I exchanged messages with Courtney Sherman Simon who played Kathy in researching this. (Also have documentation in a soap mag & verification from a SON poster.) The third is most often cited as the first, unfortunately, and it is a legal Roe v. Wade 1973 abortion on AMC for Erica. 

2. That it was Bill Bell who introduced social issues as storylines on soaps. Again, love Bill Bell & he did many things, but not this one! No, Agnes Nixon is definitely the first on this! (And, IMO, she was also the best at it, with Claire Labine nipping at her heels.)

To clarify, and I guess this is another error to add to the list. Erica's abortion happened the week of May 10, 1971 before Roe vs. Wade but after New York had made it legal with certain stipulations.

Erica tells Jeff that she wants an abortion, he is almost on board until his father Joe talks him out of it. Erica tells him to either arrange one by proper means (meaning in New York) or she would seek one by improper means (In Pine Valley) He doesn't and she does.

4 minutes ago, will81 said:

To clarify, and I guess this is another error to add to the list. Erica's abortion happened the week of May 10, 1971 before Roe vs. Wade but after New York had made it legal with certain stipulations.

Erica tells Jeff that she wants an abortion, he is almost on board until his father Joe talks him out of it. Erica tells him to either arrange one by proper means (meaning in New York) or she would seek one by improper means (In Pine Valley) He doesn't and she does.

So, Erica's abortion was an illegal one? 

Now I wonder whether SFT/Kathy or AMC/Erica was first. Thanks for this info. Honestly as many different ways & from as many different sources I've heard or read about Erica's abortion it has never been said that it was not a Roe v Wade abortion! And many times it specified that it was. 

1 minute ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

So, Erica's abortion was an illegal one? 

Now I wonder whether SFT/Kathy or AMC/Erica was first. Thanks for this info. Honestly as many different ways & from as many different sources I've heard or read about Erica's abortion it has never been said that it was not a Roe v Wade abortion! And many times it specified that it was. 

Yeah the misconception was that it was 1973, but after we got so much synopsis from the Daytime Serial Newsletter, it became clear it had happened earlier and many assumed 1972. I was surprised to learn it was 1971 and only 5 months after Jeff and Erica were married (they wed in Dec 1970). Their divorce isn't finalised until April 1974.

 

8 minutes ago, will81 said:

Yeah the misconception was that it was 1973, but after we got so much synopsis from the Daytime Serial Newsletter, it became clear it had happened earlier and many assumed 1972. I was surprised to learn it was 1971 and only 5 months after Jeff and Erica were married (they wed in Dec 1970). Their divorce isn't finalised until April 1974.

 

So, it goes like this: 

AW 1st abortion, illegal, Pat Matthews, no abortion anywhere was legal

SFT 1st legal abortion, Kathy Phillips traveled from Hendersons to NYC, Sept. 1970

AMC 2nd illegal abortion Erica May 1971 

1 hour ago, will81 said:

Erica's abortion happened the week of May 10, 1971 before Roe vs. Wade but after New York had made it legal with certain stipulations.

Erica tells Jeff that she wants an abortion, he is almost on board until his father Joe talks him out of it. Erica tells him to either arrange one by proper means (meaning in New York) or she would seek one by improper means (In Pine Valley) He doesn't and she does.

I remember this. I watched this storyline on TV when it first aired.  I remember the dialogue about New York being a place where it was legal.

I was mystified when people were posting here that it was 1972 or 1973.

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by janea4old

1 hour ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

So, it goes like this: 

AW 1st abortion, illegal, Pat Matthews, no abortion anywhere was legal

SFT 1st legal abortion, Kathy Phillips traveled from Hendersons to NYC, Sept. 1970

AMC 2nd illegal abortion Erica May 1971 

I'm not sure why you are stating that Kathy on SFT had an abortion in Sept 1970. Kathy was not even on the show until 1971.