1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

The point is they are not really using history. It’s base level fan service disguised as using history.

And that is something soaps have been doing for so many years now! I think it may have been something that JFP began doing & then pretty much everyone jumped on the bandwagon, sort of a way to make a new character ... not new. But, of course, it usually falls flat on its face. 

1 minute ago, j swift said:

While I'm not an immediate fan of the new actor playing Jagger, I also don't recall the original character or actor being that compelling.  The pairing with Karen was intriguing, and the triangle with Brenda was a great teen/young adult story for the time, but Jagger was the weakest link within that plot. 

Also, I am giving GH some creativity points for choosing Jagger as a potential mate for Carly because of all the historical connections.  And he was established as a law enforcer in his prior times on the canvas. 

Amusingly, whenever @vee references him as Wagger, I was reading it as 'wager' (like a bet) in my head and I didn't understand the nickname, but now I think it is fits. 

ASJ was the weakest actor of the bunch, but I would say he was fairly charismatic and had good chemistry with his co stars.  Karen/Jagger were an extremely popular pairing in their day.   And, let's be honest, no one really cared about his acting because of how hot ASJ was.  The way Karen/Jagger ended and the fact that ASJ is who he is now probably colors a lot of people's memories of the character.

I am not saying AH is ugly or a bad actor.  I just think when you go so far off in casting and bring back a character in name only it's a baffling choice.  How long can Sonny/Jagger talk about Karen and Stone?  Both have been dead for decades and 90% of the cast currently didn't know either of them.

I eye roll at the fact they are going to pair him with Carly.  It's not even a creative choice to give Carly a Brenda cast off these days.  Someone like Nina or Ava would be more interesting.

2 minutes ago, carolineg said:

How long can Sonny/Jagger talk about Karen and Stone?

My memory may be way off, BUT, the other thing that keeps annoying me about this dialogue is that IIRC Stone and Jagger interacted for a relatively short period of their time on screen.  Jagger was around for a long time before they established his siblings, and I don't think of him having many significant scenes with Stone.  I get that Jagger today would not recall Stone's connection with Sonny kindly, because of all the trouble that befell Stone.  But, and correct me if I am wrong, they weren't that close to begin with.

2 hours ago, titan1978 said:

The point is they are not really using history. It’s base level fan service disguised as using history. I don’t even dislike the actor, he’s just miscast here.

Exactly. Ron especially used to drop this shít into dialogue clumsily and expect me to clap like a trained seal. I'm not that easy. Wagger is the same issue. He's utterly miscast, the character has no reason to return and the story is the same tired business we've watched with Sonny and other adversaries for decades.

6 minutes ago, j swift said:

My memory may be way off, BUT, the other thing that keeps annoying me about this dialogue is that IIRC Stone and Jagger interacted for a relatively short period of their time on screen.  Jagger was around for a long time before they established his siblings, and I don't think of him having many significant scenes with Stone.  I get that Jagger today would not recall Stone's connection with Sonny kindly, because of all the trouble that befell Stone.  But, and correct me if I am wrong, they weren't that close to begin with.

As someone that watched back then, it is in character for Jagger to hold a grudge. Outside of Karen/Brenda, finding his siblings was the only emotional storytelling he had back then. IMO he would still be stuck on anything he considered a failure- not saving Stone and losing Karen.

I am not in favor of ASJ ever coming back on this show. He was not a great actor, and his rhetoric disgusts me. But beyond just the hotness factor, he had charisma back then, and he had a warmth and charm that helped make him popular with the audience. Just like Vanessa had a lot of charisma, and also a vulnerability that made the audience forgive her and root for her at the beginning. She grew tremendously as an actress though, he did not.

24 minutes ago, carolineg said:

ASJ was the weakest actor of the bunch, but I would say he was fairly charismatic and had good chemistry with his co stars. 

He was also an international sex symbol, lol. He was in every ad and in a ton of magazines, music videos, whatever from here to Mars for much of the '90s. People who did not watch GH knew his face. I don't even like ASJ but if you're going to recast a presence like that, get a guy who at least vaguely resembles the original performer. But yes, character-wise how long can anyone talk about Karen and Stone over and over? As a return on paper, Jagger is a lead balloon to me unless he was coming in for a brief arc and leaving again. This guy, I doubt very much they are committed to him but I think FV and C&D were just throwing shít at the wall again and seeing what stuck.

Edited March 1, 20241 yr by Vee

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

Exactly. Ron especially used to drop this shít into dialogue clumsily and expect me to clap like a trained seal. I'm not that easy. Wagger is the same issue. He's utterly miscast, the character has no reason to return and the story is the same tired business we've watched with Sonny and other adversaries for decades.

The Floating Rib being a prime example. Not The Outback, a restaurant Mac actually owned. Just a name thrown out there for someone that watched in 1981. Or new gossip being named Amy. Just like Amy Vinning! Ugh. 

15 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

The Floating Rib being a prime example. Not The Outback, a restaurant Mac actually owned. Just a name thrown out there for someone that watched in 1981. Or new gossip being named Amy. Just like Amy Vinning! Ugh. 

I never was interested in Nurse Amy II, but I could almost sort of get behind Mac rechristening Jake's the Floating Rib per the 50th anniversary. That said, you look at the Jake's that various characters populated in the '90s and 2000s and the new Floating Rib came off real cheesy by comparison. In its day Jake's was a real dive and the atmosphere was thick. So no, I don't mind that change either.

What I wouldn't mind but what will never happen: Someone in the family reopening Luke's Club, in honor of the somehow apparently-actually-dead Luke.

Edited March 1, 20241 yr by Vee

14 minutes ago, Vee said:

He was also an international sex symbol, lol. He was in every ad and in a ton of magazines, music videos, whatever from here to Mars for much of the '90s. People who did not watch GH knew his face. I don't even like ASJ but if you're going to recast a presence like that, get a guy who at least vaguely resembles the original performer. But yes, character-wise how long can anyone talk about Karen and Stone over and over? As a return on paper, Jagger is a lead balloon to me unless he was coming in for a brief arc and leaving again. This guy, I doubt very much they are committed to him but I think FV and C&D were just throwing shít at the wall again and seeing what stuck.

I think it's easy to forget how popular ASJ was for a minute and his (horrible) role on Melrose Place during the peak of it's run. 

I tend to agree I doubt the show is very committed to this Jagger and it probably all was done before GH got Steve Burton back.

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

The way Karen/Jagger ended and the fact that ASJ is who he is now probably colors a lot of people's memories of the character.

Not mine!  I always thought he (and Cari Shayne) stunk up the joint, lol!  

1 hour ago, Vee said:

I think FV and C&D were just throwing shít at the wall again and seeing what stuck.

It seems like C&D did a lot of that during their time at the show.   

21 hours ago, carolineg said:

Brenda has been off the canvas for a decade now and I can very easily block out Sonny + love interest nonsense.  That type of stuff doesn't even phase me.  I once heard Sonny tell Olivia** Brenda was some girl he used to date and lived through it.

Okay. Fine. But this is not the fun CG reply I was after! 😉

On the most recent podcast between Steve Burton & Bradford Anderson, Josh Swickard talks very briefly about Jacqueline Grace Lopez (Blaze) ... He says as he understood it she was only on for a few episodes surrounding the awful mgr Linc & then they brought her back for this new storyline with Kristina. Great attitude. Great work ethic. So cool!

15 minutes ago, Khan said:

Not mine!  I always thought he (and Cari Shayne) stunk up the joint, lol!  

It seems like C&D did a lot of that during their time at the show.   

I was never a big CS/Karen fan, but I have an obvious bias lol.

Karen was so wimpy and literally just let things happen to her.  Brenda wasn't even stealthy or that smart about her sabotage and just got away with it because Karen was such a lame noodle.  

I always did like ASJ's Jagger.

I liked the Port Charles Karens. I've never been very fond of Cari Shayne.

28 minutes ago, Vee said:

I liked the Port Charles Karens. I've never been very fond of Cari Shayne.

I have seen Cari Shayne in other stuff and she's been okay.  I just thought Karen was the biggest poor me victim in the world and it was annoying.  I know she was abused, but for so long I wondered why she just let people walk all over her.

I liked the PC Karen's too.   But they both seem to have more of a backbone than GH's Karen.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

I liked the Port Charles Karens. I've never been very fond of Cari Shayne.

SAME!!!