3 minutes ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

 

thank you both for these astute observations.

for years, i’ve struggled to articulate why i prefered the p&g soaps, i had always described as a styalistic preference, but never realized it was the actual day-to-day writing. 

and, as donna noted, while cbs pretty much left bill bell to his own devices, the network felt that the p&g soaps needed the network’s “help.” have that on the record from lucy johnson!

of course, that help led both gl and ‘world turns straight down the [!@#$%^&*]-shute.

There are notations as far back as an absolute protest by Doris Hursley about interference with some aspect of her writing that she considered just one push too many! And, contemporaneous to that Irna complaining about interference with ATWT by those idiots in Cincinnati! 

I've said at times I preferred the P&G soaps because they tended to have large casts, which I liked, but got them in trouble & because their presentation was close to a proscenium stage, so the most like a teleplay. 

36 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Whether you enjoyed it or not, Bell’s Y&R was an auteurist vision - something that became increasingly difficult to find in daytime. Other than Slesar’s EON, there’s no other long-term and sustainable comparison in this medium, IMO.

In the sense that no matter who came after - it was just never going to be the same again. 

"The genre’s first auteur, an eccentric writer/producer named Irna Phillips. Invented her 1st daytime network radio serial in 1930 at the age of 31 & then went on to create many of the biggest titles in radio and TV. She churned out 2 million words a year." - Sex & Death in the Afternoon: An Oral History of the American Soap Opera

Irna invented the genre - in her wake, very few people were given the same freedom to execute their vision to the fullest extent. Bell was one of the few exceptions - even Agnes Nixon eventually had to contend with being a “consultant” in name only once she sold her shows to the network.

Edited November 28, 20232 yr by BetterForgotten

15 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Irma invented the genre - in her wake, very few people were given the same freedom to execute their vision to the fullest extent. Bell was one of the few exceptions - even Agnes Nixon eventually had to contend with being a “consultant” in name only once she sold her shows to the network.

Oh, yeah, and she had 3 proteges, thank god! And, if I had to guess who her favorite was It was this gentle man who she looked to for assistance creating Another World, you got him, William J. Bell. 

No disrespect intended to Irna. But, from what I read sounds like she scared Bell a little. 😅

Edited November 28, 20232 yr by lucaslesann23

people: her name is ‘irna,’ not ‘irma!’

2 minutes ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

people: her name is ‘irna,’ not ‘irma!’

Sorry, hit the M by accident.

2 hours ago, Broderick said:

By the time Lyn Marie Latham pranced onto the scene with her reliquaries, there was nowhere to go but up!  Miss Latham, however, figured out a way to go down even farther.  And so have all her successors.        

And I think that's because everyone was either brought in to "fix" what other felt needed to be fixed, or they felt the need to immediately jump in and become William J. Bell, and it all backfired... for the most part. Some did better than others, but the true damage was done by Maria Arena, whose control of the show really just.... felt real wrong.

2 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

When did Ed Scott depart?

Edward J. Scott departure was announced in December 2001, when David Shaughnessy was named as his successor. I enjoyed Shaughnessy's vision of The Young and the Restless a lot, honestly. But, even in announcing Scott's exit, press reported he and Kay Alden were frequently "at odds" over the show's direction, so it appears either he chose to exit at the end of his contract, or it was chosen not to be renewed for him, in favour of Alden remaining. Even Christopher Douglas' exit as Sean was credited to the odds between Alden & Scott, and not necessarily with him as a talent. 2001 was interesting, casting-wise. The biggest? Melody Thomas Scott reportedly cleaned out her dressing room before it was announced she was in fact not leaving... a sense of tension and alliance with her husband, who was around that time speculated to have been mulling a departure for film production? Possibly.... who knows.

Edited November 28, 20232 yr by Liberty City

1 hour ago, BetterForgotten said:

Irna was in and out for some of that time, no?

Irna did work on other projects eg Another World , consulting at ABC but was always at ATWT till 1970.She came back from 72-73.

Kay Alden reinvigorated the show. It had largely been coasting for a couple of years. So much focus on the Newman family. Sharon and Nick were practically on every day, and to me they were bland AF back then.

Bell’s last year started the ball rolling. But her first year laid the kind of groundwork that should have fueled the show for years. Jill/Katherine back at it. Glo by Jabot.  Mac/Billy, the resurgence of the Abbott family. Rumor has it she and Ed Scott were wrestling for control of the show, which didn’t help.

22 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

the true damage was done by Maria Arena

Maria Arena was utterly wretched.  

In her defense though (lol), I honestly doubt she wrote a single word that aired on the show.  She probably absent-mindedly tossed some (terrible) ideas to her underlings and barked at them to elaborate on her lousy ideas and type them up, and perhaps she actually scanned a few scripts during her trans-Atlantic flights.  But she seemed far too flighty and socialite-minded to ever sit down at a computer and work her way through a problem, or even to read & contemplate what someone else had written. 

I've never been able to accept that she actually wrote anything herself.    

But she was more than happy to take credit for the garbage that was churned out during her tenure as "head writer".  

3 minutes ago, Broderick said:

Maria Arena was utterly wretched.  

In her defense though (lol), I honestly doubt she wrote a single word that aired on the show.  She probably absent-mindedly tossed some (terrible) ideas to her underlings and barked at them to elaborate on her lousy ideas and type them up, and perhaps she actually scanned a few scripts during her trans-Atlantic flights.  But she seemed far too flighty and socialite-minded to ever sit down at a computer and work her way through a problem, or even to read & contemplate what someone else had written. 

I've never been able to accept that she actually wrote anything herself.    

But she was more than happy to take credit for the garbage that was churned out during her tenure as "head writer".  

I just remember the disdain Jeanne Cooper had for the writing under Arena's tenure. Arena, I do believe, had some good intentions but she really just... was not made for the role(s) she played.

Maria was okay at the beginning but, she had Hogan and Rauch with her. Always wondered how she would have fared without them.

1 minute ago, lucaslesann23 said:

Maria was okay at the beginning but, she had Hogan and Rauch with her. Always wondered how she would have fared without them.

Rauch really should have been sole executive.

9 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

Rauch really should have been sole executive.

I don't think he should have come at all. I remember how bright the lighting was. 

4 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

I just remember the disdain Jeanne Cooper had for the writing under Arena's tenure. Arena, I do believe, had some good intentions but she really just... was not made for the role(s) she played.

Wasn't it Jeanne Cooper who said of Maria Arena, "You can't undertake two big projects [writing a soap & trying to oversee a modern art museum] and expect both of those endeavors to flourish.  One of the endeavors necessarily suffers." 

And that's why I believe Hogan wrote all that junk, and Miss Arena simply took credit for it because she didn't even comprehend how horrible it was. 

There's no question that she sauntered in with some useful ideas about what needed to be fixed on the show, but her methods of fixing them were lackluster at best (and disastrous at worst). 

I think she just barked at Hogan (or whoever), "Reverse this business with Jill and Kay!  Reverse this business with Cane!" and then went to the museum for the rest of the day and then a fashion show at night.  I doubt she actually wrote a word.  Matter of fact, when they finally fired her ass, she wasn't even in the United States.  She was flitting around in Europe on an extended vacation, despite supposedly being Y&R's showrunner. She didn't have time in her social schedule for that boring writing and producing stuff.    

Her Wikipedia page describes her as a "novelist" (and always has) but I've never seen any evidence of her "novel".  I think she's a complete fraud.