5 minutes ago, Vee said:

I don't agree, I think it was a mistake to kill virtually all of them. DAYS' poor use of many of those excellent actors is on DAYS. Maggie especially had a second life with Victor, no matter how tired folks got of that in the last decade.

I would assume almost everyone would agree with you.  I am not saying some of them couldn't have come back, but the whole fake out was stupid.  There was no investment if no one died.  I think I would have kept most of them dead tbh.  Maybe not Alice or Doug, but I don't know.  I don't think it was a killing of Maureen death knell of the show.  But hindsight is 20/20 and it's hard to say without truly knowing the original plan.

33 minutes ago, Vee said:

Whatever your personal struggles, I don't think you'd ever countenance putting out the kind of hateful bigotry drag disguised as camp Reilly regularly was producing by the end of PSSNS. 

Well, let's put it this way: I wouldn't say "no" to a story like Vincent/Valerie, because, as I've learned, you never shut off any creative avenues.  (Except, of course, when those avenues lead to literal demonic possession.  That's simply a bridge too far for me.).  But you damn well better believe I'll do everything in my power to see that a story about an intersexed blackmailer who gets pregnant by their own father is told with the utmost class and sensitivity.

And yes, I wrote that last sentence with the straightest of straight faces.

37 minutes ago, Vee said:

That was how I felt. As a slasher movie buff I was pretty into the story as a simple concept, and it was to Reilly's credit that he could still get major eyes on the show and buzz for it. But the actual storyline (except for the ominous, doom-laden lead-ups to 'murders' like Jack, Abe, Roman, etc.) was amateurishly executed on virtually every level. The dialogue and plotting was kids TV-caliber, and it was clear he took a perverse glee in what he was doing to really beloved characters. The thing with Maggie being bludgeoned to death on livestream or whatever, while ahead of its time, was horribly done and so crass.

There were ways to do that kind of storyline - even a fakeout, like it all turned out to be - in a classy but also shocking and creepy way. As equal parts a soap and horror movie fan, it deeply disappointed me how it turned out. And it was obvious it would be Marlena, because Reilly was always obsessed with Marlena. And no matter what anyone says I absolutely believe he would simply have blamed the Devil or something again in the original plans, and expecting the audience to go with that with all those people dead would have been unconscionable and despicable. I loved Frances Reid blowing the whistle on him and Corday and calling it a rewrite because the story tanked.

All I can say is, compare the Salem Stalker to the "LOVING Murders," and I say THAT as someone who never liked that storyline OR the ones responsible for it.

40 minutes ago, te. said:

I don't really think the "Melaswen" storyline and undoing all the deaths was really worth it in the long run to be honest, but I guess once you kill off the matriarch by choking on a donut, you have no choice

LOL!!

38 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I am not saying some of them couldn't have come back, but the whole fake out was stupid.  There was no investment if no one died.

Exactly.  The grisly murders were awful enough.  The big "PSYCH!" at the end just made things worse.

I loved almost all the SSK victims for nostalgic reasons, but if I had been in JER's tight-fitting, Catholic shoes, I wouldn't have undone any of the murders.  Not even Doug's or Alice's.  The audience has to believe that what they're seeing on-screen is really happening.  Otherwise, like you've said, @carolineg, they just can't invest themselves; and if you can't get your audience to invest in the stories you're telling, then what the hell are you doing telling them?

But, you know, I don't believe it took much arm-twisting to convince JER to scrap his original plans for the SSK story, because I don't think he cared much at all about what happened to DAYS or even to PASSIONS by that point.  He was likely too burnt out, too sick of network interference, and too overwhelmed by his personal issues to give much of a [!@#$%^&*] about how the writing looked.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by Khan

4 hours ago, Khan said:

I was a teenager when JER's much-heralded first run began, and let me tell you: even then, I found it simplistic, juvenile, not at all what DAYS used to be or should have been, and an almost clarion-like call for help.

I would say it screwed over Drake in the long run, too, because it's clear (to me, anyway) that Drake has struggled for years and years (and years) with how to portray someone that's more a concept (a romantic, brainwashed mercenary with a sketchy, elusive past) than an actual human being.  Hence, the really bad acting that's emanated from him since then.

Well, it's one thing to shake up an ailing show with a serial-killer storyline.  DAYS had gone to that well many times before.  But the ways JER was dispatching some characters...?  It was sick, and it smacked of the guy delighting in sticking it to everyone -- Corday, Sony, NBC, the actors, the fans, everyone.

In retrospect I agree.

At the time I thought the shock value had a purpose. I put JER on a pedastal because of my own experience coming up with the show, not 100% caring what it was before (Days has seen many 'eras') and loving the semi-gothic tone and (overly) simple crafting of story that appealed to base level consumers because, let's face it, that's the purpose of soaps. All else aside, he understood the hook.

In 2003, Days was in it's 2,497th plan for salvation and he went cheap to get eyeballs. I thought there would be a purpose to the death. A man like JER who laid pieces in place months, sometimes years in advance? I couldn't fathom a "faithful" man like him would go macabcre just for the sake of being macabre but, again, I didn't factor in Passions, the time that had passed or the rose colored glasses I viewed my own Days experience through.

In the end JER fell victim to his own ego and distorted thinking.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by KLN

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

I can't say I have loved anything on Days post-1999, but I'd rather it be on the air than not, so I am fine with JER saving it at the time.

Yeah, I am giving JER a lot of flack because a lot of it's silly in re watch or when you think about it logically.   It doesn't hold up that well and his newer work certainly doesn't, but I do think it's very memorable.  In a way Days hasn't been for a long time.  I feel like I can make points and acknowledge silliness and stupidity in his writing in a way I can't with, say, Dena Higley.  Because nothing she did was memorable or worth discussing again during her run.  Anyhow, personal opinion and all.  I always enjoy discussing things with soap lovers even if when I disagree.

Wasn't JER very religious, but also gay?  And weren't there rumors he would act scenes out with dolls and only address the actors by character names?

Uh huh.

Agoraphobic reclusive heretic incel bigot.

They should've studied his brain when he passed.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by KLN

44 minutes ago, Khan said:

LOL!!

Exactly.  The grisly murders were awful enough.  The big "PSYCH!" at the end just made things worse.

I loved almost all the SSK victims for nostalgic reasons, but if I had been in JER's tight-fitting, Catholic shoes, I wouldn't have undone any of the murders.  Not even Doug's or Alice's.  The audience has to believe that what they're seeing on-screen is really happening.  Otherwise, like you've said, @carolineg, they just can't invest themselves; and if you can't get your audience to invest in the stories you're telling, then what the hell are you doing telling them?

But, you know, I don't believe it took much arm-twisting to convince JER to scrap his original plans for the SSK story, because I don't think he cared much at all about what happened to DAYS or even to PASSIONS by that point.  He was likely too burnt out, too sick of network interference, and too overwhelmed by his personal issues to give much of a [!@#$%^&*] about how the writing looked.

One thing about JER is when he went for a story-he went for it. And I respected that.  Melaswen absolutely became such a cop out.  Perhaps he wasn't 100% invested in the end, but the story was built around Marlena and we know he was invested in her.  I would have rather he went for it and it be reviled then to back out and it still be reviled you know?

 

16 minutes ago, KLN said:

In retrospect I totally agree.

At the time I thought the shock value had a purpose. I put JER on a pedastal because of my own experience coming up with the show, not 100% caring what it was before (Days has seen many 'eras') and loving the semi-gothic tone and (overly) simple crafting of story that appealed to base level consumers because, let's face it, that's the purpose of soaps. All else aside, he understood the hook.

In 2003, Days was in it's 2,497th plan for salvation and he went cheap to get eyeballs. I thought there would be a purpose to the death. A man like JER who laid pieces in place months, sometimes years in advance? I couldn't fathom a "faithful" like him would go macabcre just for the sake of being macabre sake but, again, I didn't factor in Passions, the time that had passed or the rose colored glasses I viewed my own Days experience through.

In the end JER fell victim to his own ego and distorted thinking.

Again, we will never know what he had planned for the story.  For all we know it could have been a worse trainwreck, but I doubt it.

I will say I was majorly disappointed with his second run because I had such high hopes and knew he loved characters I loved.   Did he do the Alex North stuff?  I think so and that is unforgivable lol.  Also, I won't even start with Marlena's pregnancy.  It's too traumatizing for me to re-live ...

2 hours ago, Vee said:

It was, yes. Whatever your personal struggles, I don't think you'd ever countenance putting out the kind of hateful bigotry drag disguised as camp Reilly regularly was producing by the end of PSSNS. It was him vomiting his demons onscreen in the darkest ways to me.

Totally.

I gave Passions up a few months in but I remember the two-face "He/She" serial killer who had sex with his/her brother and got pregnant with his/her dad's baby.

I saw bits of that here and was mortified.

2 hours ago, carolineg said:

I also thinking building a show around such an unlikeable heroine like Theresa didn't help, but I know others loved her.  I really only watched maybe a month of Passions so I am not the best judge.

Theresa was nuts from day one. 😄

"I'm going to marry him!"

Biiiitch.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by KLN

12 minutes ago, KLN said:

Totally.

I gave Passions up a few months in but I remember the two-face "He/She" serial killer who had sex with his/her brother and got pregnant with his/her dad's baby.

I saw bits of that here and I was mortified.

Theresa was nuts from day one. 😄

"I'm going to marry him!"

Biiiitch.

Again, it was akin to giving Sami a platform for her delusion and making her the main heroine of the show in 1996.

25 minutes ago, carolineg said:

One thing about JER is when he went for a story-he went for it. And I respected that.  Melaswen absolutely became such a cop out.  Perhaps he wasn't 100% invested in the end, but the story was built around Marlena and we know he was invested in her.  I would have rather he went for it and it be reviled then to back out and it still be reviled you know?

 

Again, we will never know what he had planned for the story.  For all we know it could have been a worse trainwreck, but I doubt it.

I will say I was majorly disappointed with his second run because I had such high hopes and knew he loved characters I loved.   Did he do the Alex North stuff?  I think so and that is unforgivable lol.  Also, I won't even start with Marlena's pregnancy.  It's too traumatizing for me to re-live ...

I think it was JER but I've mentally blocked a lot of that.

I remember loving Marlena's hair for Alex North. That's about it.

11 minutes ago, KLN said:

I think it was JER but I've mentally blocked a lot of that.

I remember loving Marlena's hair for Alex North. That's about it.

Yes, Deidre looking fantastic in that story  Last time I have liked her hair.  She looked gorgeous.  Not young enough to make me believe she was still ovulating, but really pretty.

Neither here nor there, but I actually think the show made Marlena too old when she debuted to pair her with Don.  She was a full on respected psychiatrist in 1976 and then she had to play her 40's for like 20 years to make everything work in a logical timeline.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by carolineg

14 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Again, it was akin to giving Sami a platform for her delusion and making her the main heroine of the show in 1996.

Sami wasn't the heroine in the mid-90s?

7 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Not young enough to make me believe she was still ovulating

9 minutes ago, te. said:

Sami wasn't the heroine in the mid-90s?

No that was Carrie, silly.  Sami didn't become the main heroine until like 2000 when Austin decided to fall in love with his stalker and so did half the men in Salem.

Sorry, Never Say Never DEE!

That movie and picture still makes me laugh out loud and we have discussed it at length, but I love it.  Apparently 60 year old Roman had strong sperm and Marlena still had a fertile uterus.  I can't believe superstud John only impregnated her once.

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by carolineg

1 hour ago, KLN said:

Theresa was nuts from day one. 😄

"I'm going to marry him!"

Biiiitch.

Oh, but it's FATE, KLN, can't you see that?!

13 minutes ago, Franko said:

Oh, but it's FATE, KLN, can't you see that?!

Lindsay gave everything to that crazy bitch. 😄😄

If they ever give Brady a new love interest I'd be down for pretending Arianna had a different face and give Lindsay another go. She was one of the few bright spots of Passions for me, maybe the only bright spot.

1 hour ago, KLN said:

Theresa was nuts from day one. 😄

"I'm going to marry him!"

Biiiitch.

 

😄😄

Edited January 2, 20223 yr by KLN

1 hour ago, carolineg said:

Again, it was akin to giving Sami a platform for her delusion and making her the main heroine of the show in 1996.

You know, given how popular Sami/AS was in the '90's, I wouldn't be surprised if Corday/Sony/NBC didn't at least consider spinning her off onto her own show.  Especially after her schemes against Austin and Carrie were exposed.  That would have been the perfect opportunity for her to leave Salem and start over in a new town as a single mom trying to change her ways.  You could have even had her become the Carrie in a new triangle with a guy from a prominent family in town and another girl who schemes, like Sami did in Salem, to keep them apart.