On 8/25/2024 at 7:54 PM, soapfan770 said:

Chicken Soup — though the highest-rated of any new show this fall — regularly lost nearly one-third of the huge Roseanne audience. Last week the network abruptly canceled its can’t-miss hit.

ABC replaced Chicken Soup with Coach. We pretty much proved Coach as a time slot hit.

On 8/25/2024 at 10:54 PM, soapfan770 said:

With such a proposition, who could lose? Take Jackie Mason, the veteran Borscht Belt comic. Put him in a sitcom produced by the same people who created hits for Bill Cosby and Roseanne Barr. Give it the surefire time period following No. 1-rated Roseanne. Almost every TV prognosticator in the business picked Chicken Soup as the season’s big hit. But Mason had a troubled autumn. He got bad reviews, both for his acting and for making racially inflammatory remarks during the New York City mayoral race. More dismaying to ABC, Chicken Soup — though the highest-rated of any new show this fall — regularly lost nearly one-third of the huge Roseanne audience. Last week the network abruptly canceled its can’t-miss hit. Moral: when it comes to TV programming, nobody knows borscht.

All I remember about that show was Lynn Redgrave was also in it. And Kathryn Erbe, who would much later go on to the Law & Order franchise in Criminal Intent as Alex Eames.

She and Redgrave actually had sort of a reunion in a Season 8 episode of CI, "Folie A Deux".

Funny how, even though he was the lead, I totally forgot Jackie Mason was involved.

Whose idea was it to give Jackie Mason his own situation comedy anyway?

On 8/30/2024 at 1:06 AM, Khan said:

Whose idea was it to give Jackie Mason his own situation comedy anyway?

Guess they thought that Roseanne had shown that conventional sitcom types were on the way out and it was time for the unpretties.

Throughout the 80's what do you guys think was the worst fall schedule that each network presented? Not so much in hindsight when we know how the shows performed but more on how the schedule presented at the time.

For NBC I'd say 81-82

SUN

Matthew Star (never aired that season) Chips (fading) Movie (NBC had no big movie titles)

MON

Little House Movie (again few potential big titles)

TUES

Father Murphy  Bret Maverick (did anyone want to watch a Western, even with James Gardner) Flamingo Road (struggling, needed a big lead in to succeed)

WED

Real People   Facts of Life   Love Sydney (mediocre) Quincy (fading)

THURS

Harper Valley ( a mild success in a different timeslot) Lewis & Clark ( flop written all over it) Different Strokes Gimme a Break ( middling sitcom at this point) Hill St Blues 

FRI

NBC Magazine (unsuitable for this timeslot) McLains Law (formula cop show) Devlin Connection (Rock Hudson show that never aired that season)

SAT

Barbara Mandrell Nashville Palace (a second hour of country music and corny comedy,no thanks) Fitz & Bones (Smothers Brothers show left over from last season I think,a fill in when Cassie & Co was delayed by the strike)

So there you have it- pretty threadbare line up featuring a bunch of old stars James Arness, James Garner, Tony Randall, Rock Hudson, Angie Dickinson etc in hastily put together shows.

When the schedule was announced there were no details or even titles ready for James Arness or Rock Hudson.

In addition to the writers strike NBC had bad breaks - injuries on set of Matthew Star, Rock Hudson's heart attack, producer changes at Harper Valley, Gary Coleman absent from early episodes etc.

It was a disaster season from go to whoa.

 

 

Edited August 31, 20241 yr by Paul Raven

11 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Throughout the 80's what do you guys think was the worst fall schedule that each network presented?

I nominate CBS 1988/89, the writer's strike delayed season. Scripted shows only.

Returning dramas: Dallas (aging and fading), Knots Landing (aging and fading), Simon & Simon (aging and fading), Falcon Crest (aging and fading); Murder, She Wrote (still a hit); The Equalizer (not a hit), Beauty and the Beast (not a hit), Jake and the Fatman (not a hit), Tour of Duty (not a hit), Wiseguy (not a hit).

Returning comedies: Newhart (aging and fading), Kate & Allie (aging and fading), Designing Women (not yet a hit), The Cavanaughs (not a hit), Coming of Age (not a hit).

There were way too many one season and done shows to list.

The only new fall drama to return for 1989/90 was Paradise. The only new fall comedy to return for 1989/90 was Murphy Brown.

15 hours ago, kalbir said:

I nominate CBS 1988/89, the writer's strike delayed season. Scripted shows only.

Returning dramas: Dallas (aging and fading), Knots Landing (aging and fading), Simon & Simon (aging and fading), Falcon Crest (aging and fading); Murder, She Wrote (still a hit); The Equalizer (not a hit), Beauty and the Beast (not a hit), Jake and the Fatman (not a hit), Tour of Duty (not a hit), Wiseguy (not a hit).

Returning comedies: Newhart (aging and fading), Kate & Allie (aging and fading), Designing Women (not yet a hit), The Cavanaughs (not a hit), Coming of Age (not a hit).

There were way too many one season and done shows to list.

The only new fall drama to return for 1989/90 was Paradise. The only new fall comedy to return for 1989/90 was Murphy Brown.

I'd have to agree. Newhart leading off Monday night, with Almost Grown as the 10pm show.

TV 101 the umpteenth flop 8pm show trying to grab the youth.

And on Wednesday going with Dick Van Dyke and Mary Tyler Moore.

Dirty Dancing / Raising Miranda on SAT.

It just seemed like hodgepodge of middling shows.

14 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

It just seemed like hodgepodge of middling shows.

CBS 1989/90 wasn't any better as far as scripted shows go.

Returning dramas: Dallas (aging and fading), Knots Landing (aging and fading), Falcon Crest (aging and fading); Murder, She Wrote (still a hit); Beauty and the Beast (not a hit), Jake and the Fatman (not a hit), Tour of Duty (not a hit), Wiseguy (not a hit), Paradise (not a hit).

Returning comedies: Newhart (aging and fading), Designing Women (not yet a hit), Murphy Brown (not yet a hit), Doctor Doctor (not a hit).

Another season of way too many one season and done shows to list.

No new fall dramas returned in 1990/91. The only new fall comedy to return for 1990/91 was Major Dad.

On 8/29/2024 at 1:06 PM, Khan said:

Whose idea was it to give Jackie Mason his own situation comedy anyway?

Idk he was in the midst of a career revival and I guess someone thought his personality would translate to sitcom? What a mess. The show’s plot about an Interfaith couple was already a DOA (see the doomed 70’s sitcom Bridget Loves Bernie) but add in Mason’s bombastic (and politically incorrect) persona and well…the show was on the decline anyways as that Time Magazine article mentioned when Mason made his remarks.

Like I said it definitely wasn’t Mason’s first time in his career was derailed because it was mired in controversy because of him running his mind mouth off and it definitely wasn’t the last. 🙄😵‍💫

@Paul Raven @kalbir

In addition to CBS’ 1988-89 season and NBC’s 1981-82 season I would have to nominate ABC’s 1984-85 and 86-86 seasons, NBC’s Fall 1983, and CBS’ 1989-90 season.

Seemed like so much also failed for those specific networks for those particular seasons.

 

2 hours ago, soapfan770 said:

I would have to nominate ABC’s 1984-85 and 86-86 seasons, NBC’s Fall 1983, and CBS’ 1989-90 season.

Seemed like so much also failed for those specific networks for those particular seasons.

We think alike re CBS 1989/90. That season was CBS 1980s primetime nadir, yet I thought that season CBS was killing it in daytime.

NBC was still a mess in 1983/84. The A-Team was really the only hit they had.

ABC 1984/85 Aaron Spelling hit factory was showing signs of weakening despite Dynasty reaching #1 plus ABC had a good number of one season and done shows.

ABC 1985/86 the only highlight was Tuesday rebound with Who's the Boss? taking off, new comedy Growing Pains having a good start, and Moonlighting showing growth. We know 1985 ABC was sold to Capital Cities, Brandon Stoddard became in charge, and Brandon Stoddard was not a fan of Aaron Spelling and wanted the Spelling shows gone from ABC.

Edited September 2, 20241 yr by kalbir

I nominate ABC Fall 84.

Paper Dolls and Glitter as 9pm tentpole shows. Hawaiian Heat, Finder of Lost Loves, Jessie.

Foul Ups and People Do the Craziest Things.

Three's A Crowd was misguided. Luckily they salvaged Who's The Boss.

@Paul Raven ABC really seemed to struggle with dramas with the weakening of the Aaron Spelling hit factory. Moonlighting was a brief hit, but backstage drama lead to network sabotage. Once the Spelling shows and Moonlighting were gone from ABC, I don't think they had a big hit drama until NYPD Blue.

So from what I can gather if one was to rank the networks for overall viewers it would look like this I believe from the late 70’s through the end of the century for the big three:

Circa 1977-80:

1. ABC

2. CBS

3. NBC

1980-1984:

1. CBS

2. ABC

3. NBC

1984-85:

1. CBS

2. NBC

3. ABC

1985-87:

1. NBC

2. CBS

3. ABC

1987-91:

1. NBC

2. ABC

3. CBS

1991-92:

1. CBS

2. ABC

3. NBC

1992-94:

1. ABC

2. CBS

3. NBC
 

1994-97:

1. NBC

2. ABC

3. CBS

1997-99:

1. NBC

2. CBS

3. ABC

1999-2000:

1. ABC

2. NBC

3. CBS

@soapfan770 Yeah, that seems right.

Sticking to 1980s primetime for the big three.

CBS began the decade riding high, got complacent in the middle of the decade, and was an absolute mess by the end of the decade.

ABC began the decade still good, then had a mess era in the middle of the decade, but rebounded by the end of the decade.

NBC began the decade an absolute mess, had a comeback then rode high in the middle of the decade, and ended the decade still going strong but getting a little complacent.

Edited September 2, 20241 yr by kalbir

15 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@soapfan770 Yeah, that seems right.

Sticking to 1980s primetime for the big three.

CBS began the decade riding high but was an absolute mess by the end of the decade.

ABC had a mess era in the middle of the decade but rebounded by the end of the decade.

NBC began the decade an absolute mess, had a comeback then rode high in the middle of the decade, and ended the decade still going strong but getting a little complacent.

It seems to me also each network struggled with at least one genre:

NBC struggled with trying to put together a primetime soap. They tried multiple attempts but failed.

CBS struggled with creating new original comedies. For most of the decade it only 3 comedies took off with a boatload of flops.

ABC on the surface had a good mix but in reality struggled in the drama department outside of soaps. The Aaron Spelling anthologies became mundane and outdated. Moonlighting and Thirtysomething had success but outside of that there wasn’t much. In fact by the early 90’s the ABC primetime schedule was really shockingly devoid of dramas at all as the network seemed to favor newsmagazines like Primetime Live and Turning Point instead.

Edited September 2, 20241 yr by soapfan770

5 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

It seems to me also each network struggled with at least one genre:

NBC struggled with trying to put together a primetime soap. They tried multiple attempts but failed.

CBS struggled with creating new original comedies. For most of the decade it only 3 comedies took off with a boatload of flops.

ABC on the surface had a good mix but in reality struggled in the drama department outside of soaps. The Aaron Spelling anthologies became mundane and outdated. Moonlighting and Thirtysomething had success but outside of that there wasn’t much. In fact by the early 90’s the ABC primetime schedule was really shockingly devoid of dramas at all as the network seemed to favor newsmagazines like Primetime Live and Turning Point instead.

NBC had four attempts at a primetime soap (Flamingo Road, Bare Essence, The Yellow Rose, Berrenger's) but none worked.

CBS struggle with sitcoms began with the end of the M*A*S*H and the Top 10 fallouts of The Jeffersons, Alice, One Day at a Time. Newhart and Kate & Allie were bright spots but they got overshadowed by the big NBC/ABC sitcoms. Designing Women and Murphy Brown started showing growth at the end of the 1980s and became hits in the early 1990s. Major Dad had brief success in the early 1990s.

Also with ABC dramas, MacGyver ran 7 seasons and China Beach ran 4 seasons but neither showed growth. Of note is that MacGyver was ABC's longest-running drama that premiered in the 1980s which was not produced by Aaron Spelling.