HBO: House of the Dragon

[Noel]

Oh, absolutely. Both Milly Alcock (Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen) and Fabien Frankel (Ser Criston Cole) have got amazing chemistry with each other onscreen. There are so many characters on this show that it's difficult to wrap my head on who's who, so I'm hoping the more I interact with people on here, the more I can familiarize myself with all the characters. 

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[Antoyne]

I know all of 4 names so I will be no help

[Vee]

This show has been an unexpected surprise.

I was well and truly over GOT by the end of its overstuffed and abridged final two seasons, particularly with its penultimate 'blockbuster season' being a truly strange marathon of viewings on Sunday nights in 2017 alongside David Lynch's Twin Peaks Season 3, where one show seemed desperate to impress and deliver Big Moments and insane FX action while speedrunning the plot and often tripping over itself and the other simply didn't give a fùck, did as it pleased and remains renowned today. (Guess which is which.) The final two years of GOT had their great moments and sequences, and I'm not one of those people who disdains all of the ending run or thinks it's all bad - I think where Daenerys ended up was what was intended by Martin from the start, and I think Bran as the king has a certain poetry to it. But the plotting, character beats and pace got very lazy and rushed, especially re: Daenerys (and I didn't think Bran needed to be left an emotionless zombie), and ultimately the prophesied Long Night came to very little too. It was clear the showrunners (who GRRM has since said left him on read a few years prior) were looking towards their next big projects and got arrogant; to date all of those projects (Star Wars, the unfortunate-sounding HBO 'what if slavery survived' show) have evaporated.

I laughed at the announcement of another GOT spinoff all about the Targaryens; I thought it was cliche, cynical and tired, trading on the audience's uncritical love of Daenerys while failing to understand that ultimately she was an antihero and tragic villain. (To this day people still claim GOT ruined Daenerys' heroic character, but IMO it was the rushed later writing that failed to fully sell getting her to where she was always meant to go; Emilia Clarke always did great work.) I just didn't think there was much interesting left to say about 'woo dragons' given the intense feelings about the overexposed final seasons which have yet to cool down, and I felt the GOT brand itself needed a long rest.

So imagine my amazement that so far, HOTD - a show I only picked up out of sheer exhaustion and boredom in the summer of COVID Year 3 to watch something fluffy - is pretty solid. The deeper involvement of Martin, who seems to be very closely tied to the new showrunners on a personal level, shines through especially in the aesthetic, which is more colorful and high fantasy, less grungy than the later years of Westeros; I love Daemon Targaryen's OTT Final Fantasy-esque armor and elaborate helmet, the more vibrant colors, and the commonplace magic of dragons simply being a part of their lives. There seems to be less self-consciousness about leaning into these aspects of the source text, because this is a different era in the history (173? years prior to GOT) and also, of course, because GOT came first and did it well. Whatever we can say about GOT's ups and downs it stepped into a breach largely populated only by cheap basic cable shows like Xena, etc. and made fantasy more palatable to a broad and critical audience. Now that that's done, its spinoff is allowed to go more vibrant and wild with the fantastical elements or earnest nature.

Firstly, it's nice to finally see Matt Smith in a role that isn't utterly demeaning like most of his attempts to conquer America post-Doctor Who. He looked absolutely ridiculous in the promotional material with that long wig, but he is playing a deeply nuanced antihero here who is both vicious and awful and layered and human in equal measure. (Also, the wig is thankfully gone) I've loved Paddy Considine since I first saw him as the Irish immigrant father in Jim Sheridan's wonderful In America, and he's been in so many great films since. He's not the actor you would expect to be donning a ridiculous Targaryen wig but he plays King Viserys very well, full of flaws and weakness despite what seems to be a good if deeply imperfect heart (wedding and bedding his daughter's unenthusiastic best friend to avoid being wed to a twelve year old); one quickly assumes he will get Ned Stark'ed or is not long for the show. Milly Alcock is the really excellent standout as the younger Rhaenrya, who is the central character but not a typical heroine like Arya, and it's going to be a loss to see her SORASed by the older adult performer in the next time-jump. Equally of note, the addition of a key family of color and Black characters up front feels like something that makes the original GOT and its ancillary Black characters a bit of a dinosaur already. And the integral presence of a talented female director, Claire Kilner, who talks at length in the BTS material of using the female lens to focus on Rhaenyra's agency in sex, and recontextualize how they present sex scenes on the show overall - while openly discussing her own struggle with how to do that, and the experience of largely seeing only male-directed sex scenes growing up and working in media - is really fascinating, important stuff.

The regular timeskips between episodes of months and then years - Viserys going from wedding Alicent to her having his toddler son between episodes, three years apart - are not something you'd expect to work so well, but they do here because of the apparently very broad and far-reaching source text for this show (not ASOIAF) which I have not read, and because it feels like there is very little wasted movement, time and very little fat; knowing how much ground they will have to cover, they simply briskly move through story, evolution and character beats while also not feeling terribly hurried - it feels like a very focused macro-view of this world (which is still largely limited to King's Landing and its associated key families) with its own rhythm, its own rules and ethos, versus having to bounce around frenetically while trying to balance GRRM's massive and incredibly detailed original main text. Because this period in GOT history is apparently very broadly outlined in its source book, they can do what they want but (allegedly, so I've heard) intend to keep this show to 3-4 seasons maximum - which is a big boon for it, IMO. Not drawing story out unnecessarily will be a big advantage, as opposed to GOT where they treaded water at a number of periods (I'll never forget Dorne) and then by the end, when time was needed and crucial, everyone seemed to be looking for the fire exits instead. It's strange to watch a 21st century show with so many broad narrative ellipses, let alone ellipses that work - it reminds me a bit of how I Claudius did them. Next week is, I believe, eight years and the SORASing of all the younger leads.

Anyway, so far I've been pleasantly surprised. The new pace, the new style, the wide and expansive timespan and shift in perspective and increased sensitivity make it worthwhile. It could shít the bed and become another lazy new iteration of what Ian McShane famously dismissed as 'tits and dragons,' but for now it's got me into it. And yes, it makes a really unique and oddly appropriate companion viewing for Knots Landing - they're both soaps. (Amusingly, I think it was the Washington Post or another major paper that dismissed HOTD early on as 'the Knots Landing to GOT's Dallas' - go figure)

Edited September 19, 2022 by Vee

[Noel]

Damn! Ep. 5 was a terrific jaw-dropping hour of House of the Dragon. I don't want anything to happen to Ser Criston Cole, lol! He loves his woman, she sort of loves him too, she's smitten with her uncle, and the Queen knows Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen and Ser Criston Cole slept together. I guess I wasn't expecting Ser Criston Cole to do what he did at the end of the episode. I think what stinks is that Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen and the Queen Alicent Hightower used to be close friends. It's a shame that their relationship is estranged. God, she hated having sex with King Viserys Targaryen. I wouldn't either considering the fact he's looking all sickly and gross.

House of the Dragon S01E05

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[DRW50]

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Some things with the GoT shows never change...glad I haven't watched this.

[Noel]

I saw an article on that and it was from Esquire or something. I honestly did not feel that it was anything that had to do with a character's sexual orientation, but it was because that character was too busy flappin' that mouth of his. Yes, it was brutal, and sadly, actions come with consequences - the good and the bad.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Noel

[DRW50]

I would agree more with that if the original GoT did not have a history of poor, homophobic writing. It's also, similar to GoT's homophobic choices, a departure from the source material in order to give the most degrading outcome. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by DRW50

[Noel]

Spill it then. 

[DRW50]

Anything involving Loras (one of the worst-written characters I have ever seen on television). 

[Noel]

I'll have to check in on that character. I cannot seem to picture him although this link somewhat helps me. Sort of, lol! 

https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Loras_Tyrell (in case one gets suspicious that the above link is spam

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) 

[DRW50]

A summary won't necessarily help, but I wouldn't want you to have to actually sit through the years of awful material...and this isn't on topic for the thread anyway, now that I think of it, so my apologies. If you are enjoying this show, I am happy for you and I will leave it at that. I won't be watching it or posting in here again.

[Noel]

No, I watched all seasons of GoT, so I wouldn't mind re-watching it. I mean, he was on for 6 seasons. This character, on the other hand, was his first and last appearance. I would say he had a whole 8 to 10 minutes on the show. Yep, he just thought blackmail and threats can get you far in life, and well, he was in for a rude awakening.

[Toups]

Wow I had no idea about the 10 year jump and was incredibly shocked when they called blonde woman giving birth, Rheanyra.  

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 That was disappointing because I loved Milly in the role.  New Rheanyra reminds me so much of Jules on Euphoria. 
 

So Daemon married and had kids with the 12 year old that was offered to the King earlier in the season?  And now she’s already dead? 
 

I don’t understand the point of these time jumps, that’s two now and it’s just been 6 episodes.   The show is moving too fast. 

[Vee]

I can't fault people for taking issue with another gay death given the rocky treatment of Loras (I didn't hate Loras' storyline but I didn't love it either), but it's something in the Fire & Blood text IIRC and I understood that. I do think it's an unfortunate optic given the past, but I think the show can make up for it any way it chooses. As for tonight, I haven't seen it.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Vee

[Vee]

It's from the source text which spans a ton of time into the adulthood of the next generation, I believe (and the show is apparently only intended to run 3-4 years). I like it, I think it's really different and surprisingly works. The new approach cuts the fat from the old show's pacing (although that was a very different and still unfinished text), and you don't see it often in television narrative outside of stuff like I Claudius.

Edited September 26, 2022 by Vee