I would agree that Smith's first reign at DAYS was the highlight of her career, but her work at GH was also outstanding, and I even thought she wrote beautifully for THE GUIDING LIGHT during her brief tenure there.

Agreed. I wish that Smith had a longer stint on "Guiding Light" than just a few months.

Speaking of GL, I think the Dobsons' best work was their time on GL. I don't think that anything they did afterwards came close to how great their era of the show was.

 

Yes, Smith jumped right into THE GUIDING LIGHT with great scripts, character delineation, and a focus on family, history, and community. She was wonderful. Unfortunately, after she left, the quality of the writing for that series sank noticeably. For many years in the 1980s, TGL was dreadfully written.

 

The Dobsons' work on TGL showed how talented they really were, and I agree that nothing they did later matched the quality of their work on TGL.

 

I think by that point, P&G wanted to overhaul and dumb down TGL, to appeal to the ABC audience. Smith's adult, sophisticated, character-driven work flew in the face of that. Yes, Smith was very good with Amanda. And Vanessa. And the Bauers. And Nola. And history. Watching the show sink into mediocrity after she left was painful. I had had a long history with TGL, and it was the very first time in decades that the show became truly awful.

Absolutely correct.  For example, P & G had wanted the Bauer family diminished as the centerpiece of the show since around 1981, I believe, yet Marland managed to keep them in play during his tenure (granted, as more supporting players than the frontburners that they had been during the Dobson years) and Smith was an extension of that.  P & G also wanted to eliminate a lot of the vets and bring in new characters (which eventually happened the following year in 1983).

I'm not certain if Smith actually had any conflict with Allen Potter or not.  I believe Smith was still writing for GL when Potter was replaced with Kobe, wasn't she?

 

I would agree that Smith's first reign at DAYS was the highlight of her career, but her work at GH was also outstanding, and I even thought she wrote beautifully for THE GUIDING LIGHT during her brief tenure there.

Agreed. I wish that Smith had a longer stint on "Guiding Light" than just a few months.

Speaking of GL, I think the Dobsons' best work was their time on GL. I don't think that anything they did afterwards came close to how great their era of the show was.

 

Yes, Smith jumped right into THE GUIDING LIGHT with great scripts, character delineation, and a focus on family, history, and community. She was wonderful. Unfortunately, after she left, the quality of the writing for that series sank noticeably. For many years in the 1980s, TGL was dreadfully written.

 

The Dobsons' work on TGL showed how talented they really were, and I agree that nothing they did later matched the quality of their work on TGL.

 

I think by that point, P&G wanted to overhaul and dumb down TGL, to appeal to the ABC audience. Smith's adult, sophisticated, character-driven work flew in the face of that. Yes, Smith was very good with Amanda. And Vanessa. And the Bauers. And Nola. And history. Watching the show sink into mediocrity after she left was painful. I had had a long history with TGL, and it was the very first time in decades that the show became truly awful.

Absolutely correct.  For example, P & G had wanted the Bauer family diminished as the centerpiece of the show since around 1981, I believe, yet Marland managed to keep them in play during his tenure (granted, as more supporting players than the frontburners that they had been during the Dobson years) and Smith was an extension of that.  P & G also wanted to eliminate a lot of the vets and bring in new characters (which eventually happened the following year in 1983).

I'm not certain if Smith actually had any conflict with Allen Potter or not.  I believe Smith was still writing for GL when Potter was replaced with Kobe, wasn't she?

Nope. Smith was gone by December 1982 and Potter was there until around February 1983. In an interview on the AW Home Page, L. Virginia Browne, one of the scribes, who replaced Smith 

For the record, I believe K.C. Collier was behind the Mr. Big mess as well as the James Stenbeck/Conrinne Wilson affair as I believe they shut the Dobsons out for a bit before bringing them back. The Dobson's 2nd go around at ATWT was much better ratings wise and in critical acclaim than their first go around even if it wasn't considered traditional ATWT but this was during the Mary Ellis Bunim era of course so I think a lot of the blame gets blurred easily on different factors. 

 

Just a question, how was Pat Falken Smith at Days in her second go around compared to her first? I know she helped revitalize the show with the Salem Strangler story but its been hard too beyond on that. I know she created the DiMera's, but the Evan Whyland caper seemed pretty hokey after I watched a Sept 82 ep with Stefano being involved with Evan and Maggie's car accident. 

 

\

With that said, Margaret DePriest's strongest work was either her early Where the Heart Is days or her first run at Days there 1983-1984, while her weakest work was when she was wheeled out of the nursing home for AW in 1996. Unless you want to count Sunset Beach's final year which for my own memory there's a year gap between Shockwave and the supernatural Rosario diamond to the final days on Derek alive on the loose and the finale. 

Falken Smith was gone by the time of Evan and Maggie's accident. She left around April 1982. 

 

Ah gotcha, for some reason I thought Falken Smith had wrote Days into early '83, I didn't think she had left so soon after doing so much. 

Nope. Smith was gone by December 1982 and Potter was there until around February 1983. In an interview on the AW Home Page, L. Virginia Browne, one of the scribes who replaced Smith, talks about being fired as soon as soon as Gail Kobe replaced Potter.

 

Absolutely correct.  For example, P & G had wanted the Bauer family diminished as the centerpiece of the show since around 1981, I believe, yet Marland managed to keep them in play during his tenure (granted, as more supporting players than the frontburners that they had been during the Dobson years) and Smith was an extension of that.  P & G also wanted to eliminate a lot of the vets and bring in new characters (which eventually happened the following year in 1983).

I'm not certain if Smith actually had any conflict with Allen Potter or not.  I believe Smith was still writing for GL when Potter was replaced with Kobe, wasn't she?

Marland was on board for firing Mart Hulswit as Ed Bauer, however.

 

In the early 1980s, after Hulswit was replaced by Peter Simon, Cosmopolitan magazine did an article on the soap opera genre, and interviewed Marland as one of its celebrated writers. Marland said that although they had great chemistry on-screen, Lenore Kasdorf (Rita) did not like working with Hulswit, and begged Marland to separate their characters. Marland referred to Hulswit as a "dodo" who was supposedly ill-equipped to play romantic scenes convincingly, hence the need to get a younger, sexier Ed in the guise of Peter Simon.

 

While I believe Simon is a good actor, I always found his portrayal of Ed to be morose and listless, while Hulswit exuded warmth and a certain sweetness. I did not care that Hulswit carried a few extra pounds. Physical perfection is not the sole criterion for sex appeal. For the next 27 years, I always thought of Simon as "the new Ed," whom I never completely accepted. (Richard Van Fleet, who was even a worse recast, was the "hair-model Ed.")

 

The next few years brought devastating blows to the Bauer family, with Bert, Bill, and Hillary Bauer being killed off, and Mike and Hope being written out of the story. Having a relatively new, replacement actor playing Ed Bauer made it feel like Springfield was devoid of its core family. Having a bunch of newbies and a loud-mouthed Reva hogging the air-time made the situation worse.

How was OLTL from 1980 to 1984? i only started watching OLTL in the summer of 1986 when i was 11. Also did any of you guy's enjoy the Paul Rauch era of OLTL?

 

I think the Rauch era of OLTL is a case of two competing shows within a show, actually: the OTT stuff like the Heaven  spaceship and Eterna, and the more traditional soap stories involving characters like Gabrielle (admittedly I'm biased). There are definitely things during that era that would seem out of place elsewhere, but stuff like Gabrielle and her struggle to believe in God, for example? THAT could fit in anywhere and still work. Yes, Fiona Hutchison is a strong enough actress to carry it on her own, but I think S. Michael Schnessel, despite writing stories like Eterna, also truly GOT a character like Gabrielle and made some classic soap with characters like her. I really do believe that had Fiona and Gabrielle's story been on during a more "realistic" era for the show, she would have gotten a LOT more attention from the soap press and the Daytime Emmys (the scene where she denounces God in church? Come ON!), so that atmosphere, to an extent, had to hurt stories like hers in regards to getting attention. But not ALL of the Rauch era was focused on ridiculousness or camp.

 

YMMV, of course.

To be fair, I had to flee Llanview in horror after seeing the damage that was being done to my show, so I missed a huge chunk of Rauch's later contributions to OLTL. I'll take your word for it there was was gold among the coal, since I stopped watching the show completely until I knew that Rauch was gone, and therefore cannot assess any material--good or bad--that aired during my hiatus.

vetsoapfan I was curious - what is your opinion of Peggy O'Shea?

I thought she was a capable writer who did well on OLTL. She later gave an interview to the soap press, lamenting what happened to OLTL and its characters after she left. It must be hard for decent writers to see hacks butcher the characters and history of their former shows.

 

 

My memory is vague on the specifics of who wrote what on ATWT during its campy period, so perhaps Collier did indeed pen the Mr. Big mess. There were so many writers coming and going on the show during the early 1980s, they are blurring together in my mind. Mary Ellis Bunim's destructive qualities are certainly memorable, however. We were lucky that Robert Calhoun replaced her and repaired much of the damage she had wrought upon Oakdale.

 

 

What damage did she do? I was a viewer then but really didnt pay attention to detail. And exactly when did Calhoun replace her? I know it was 84..but any specific date?

Bunim's tenure on ATWT was from late 1981 to October, 1984, at which time Calhoun replaced her.

 

No doubt with P&G's approval, Bunim wanted to completely revamp the show. She told Eileen Fulton (Lisa) that she planned to make the audience forget about beloved veteran characters by bringing in (supposedly) exciting characters and storylines of her own. Many of the vets were pushed so far into the background, they almost disappeared off the stove at this time. We lost Helen Wagner through lack of use during Bunim's reign. Don McLaughlin (Chris Hughes) was also taken off contract. Don Hastings (Bob) later remarked that under Bunim, vets like him stood around on the outskirts of party scenes, but it was only when Calhoun replaced Bunim that things improved. He said that Calhoun, "gave us our show back." When Harding Lemay took over the writing reigns of SEARCH FOR TOMORROW, he said that Bunim (who was producing that show at the time) was completely impossible, and undercut everything he wanted to do. I don't think her vision worked well for daytime dramas with long histories and veteran characters and actors, although she did have great success with the MTV docudrama series THE REAL WORLD, which focused on various groups of teenagers in various cities around the country.

Thoughts on OLTL under Gottlieb, GL under Phelps then Laibison and GH under Riche?

Edited November 22, 201510 yr by cassadine1991

vetsoapfan,

Agreed - "younger" and "sexier" are not really two words that I would equate to Peter Simon, especially as Simon was only 3 years younger than Hulswit. I'm surprised that Marland was that harsh on Hulswit, but I have also read that Hulswit was critical of the writing once Marland took over. I never got used to Hulswit, either, and Van Vleet was SO wrong for that part.

Speaking of Marland, what did you think of his time on GL after the Dobsons?

Thoughts on OLTL under Gottlieb, GL under Phelps then Laibison and GH under Riche?

I was so relieved that Rauch was fired from OLTL, I was ready to accept ANYONE at the helm of the show. At first, I was afraid LG was not going to "get" Llanview. I was afraid we would be in for short-term story arcs featuring newbie characters in whom we had no interest. But after the initial kinks were worked out, Gottlieb produced some wonderful material. I must say, however, I hated the new opening that we had to suffer through around that time: generic face and body models moving to stimulate-the-bowels music. I called this opening, "Bedsheets in the wind." What a comedown from the popular and enchanting Peabo Bryson theme!

 

She infamously killed off Maureen Bauer (allegedly to free up money to hire Justin Deas as the grating Buzz Cooper), but I believe that her tenure at TGL was JFP's most successful reign on daytime TV. A large part of it had to do with the writing, and for me personally, I was grateful that Springfield was Reva-free in the early 1990s. Phelps actually produced good shows while she was at TGL, which is hard to believe for people who have only seen her work elsewhere. After she left, Laibson and subsequent producers until the end of the series did not impress me. I hated Reva's return and all the campy, STOOPID stories they foisted on her for YEARS. Reva the Ghost. Reva the Amish Amnesiac. Reva the San Cristobelian Queen. Reva the Clone. Reva the Time Traveler. Reva the Illegal-Immigrant Savoir. Reva the Blind. Reva the Portly Sex-Goddess Who Enraptured Every Man in Springfield. Vomit.

 

After the dismal 1980s' camp bonanza, I was certain GH was forever crippled beyond repair, so I was pleasantly surprised (actually, SHOCKED is a better word) when Wendy Riche and Claire Labine ushered in another golden era of literate, adult, compelling drama for the citizens of Port Charles. Riche understood the show and what it was supposed to be (IMHO), and I was thrilled that we no longer had to put up with Ice Princesses, freezing the world, space aliens and the like. Riche made GH feel like "home" for me again, which had not been the case since Pat Falken Smith's first departure in the early 1980s. To me, the last time any soap on daytime TV provided viewers with consistently good, engrossing material was when Riche and Labine were doing GH.

 

I miss intelligent soaps.

Thoughts on OLTL under Gottlieb, GL under Phelps then Laibison and GH under Riche?

I was so relieved that Rauch was fired from OLTL, I was ready to accept ANYONE at the helm of the show. At first, I was afraid LG was not going to "get" Llanview. I was afraid we would be in for short-term story arcs featuring newbie characters in whom we had no interest. But after the initial kinks were worked out, Gottlieb produced some wonderful material. I must say, however, I hated the new opening that we had to suffer through around that time: generic face and body models moving to stimulate-the-bowels music. I called this opening, "Bedsheets in the wind." What a comedown from the popular and enchanting Peabo Bryson theme!

 

She infamously killed off Maureen Bauer (allegedly to free up money to hire Justin Deas as the grating Buzz Cooper), but I believe that her tenure at TGL was JFP's most successful reign on daytime TV. A large part of it had to do with the writing, and for me personally, I was grateful that Springfield was Reva-free in the early 1990s. Phelps actually produced good shows while she was at TGL, which is hard to believe for people who have only seen her work elsewhere. After she left, Laibson and subsequent producers until the end of the series did not impress me. I hated Reva's return and all the campy, STOOPID stories they foisted on her for YEARS. Reva the Ghost. Reva the Amish Amnesiac. Reva the San Cristobelian Queen. Reva the Clone. Reva the Time Traveler. Reva the Illegal-Immigrant Savoir. Reva the Blind. Reva the Portly Sex-Goddess Who Enraptured Every Man in Springfield. Vomit.

 

After the dismal 1980s' camp bonanza, I was certain GH was forever crippled beyond repair, so I was pleasantly surprised (actually, SHOCKED is a better word) when Wendy Riche and Claire Labine ushered in another golden era of literate, adult, compelling drama for the citizens of Port Charles. Riche understood the show and what it was supposed to be (IMHO), and I was thrilled that we no longer had to put up with Ice Princesses, freezing the world, space aliens and the like. Riche made GH feel like "home" for me again, which had not been the case since Pat Falken Smith's first departure in the early 1980s. To me, the last time any soap on daytime TV provided viewers with consistently good, engrossing material was when Riche and Labine were doing GH.

 

I miss intelligent soaps.

Thank you very much for your thoughts

 

 

My memory is vague on the specifics of who wrote what on ATWT during its campy period, so perhaps Collier did indeed pen the Mr. Big mess. There were so many writers coming and going on the show during the early 1980s, they are blurring together in my mind. Mary Ellis Bunim's destructive qualities are certainly memorable, however. We were lucky that Robert Calhoun replaced her and repaired much of the damage she had wrought upon Oakdale.

 

 

What damage did she do? I was a viewer then but really didnt pay attention to detail. And exactly when did Calhoun replace her? I know it was 84..but any specific date?

Bunim's tenure on ATWT was from late 1981 to October, 1984, at which time Calhoun replaced her.

 

No doubt with P&G's approval, Bunim wanted to completely revamp the show. She told Eileen Fulton (Lisa) that she planned to make the audience forget about beloved veteran characters by bringing in (supposedly) exciting characters and storylines of her own. Many of the vets were pushed so far into the background, they almost disappeared off the stove at this time. We lost Helen Wagner through lack of use during Bunim's reign. Don McLaughlin (Chris Hughes) was also taken off contract. Don Hastings (Bob) later remarked that under Bunim, vets like him stood around on the outskirts of party scenes, but it was only when Calhoun replaced Bunim that things improved. He said that Calhoun, "gave us our show back." When Harding Lemay took over the writing reigns of SEARCH FOR TOMORROW, he said that Bunim (who was producing that show at the time) was completely impossible, and undercut everything he wanted to do. I don't think her vision worked well for daytime dramas with long histories and veteran characters and actors, although she did have great success with the MTV docudrama series THE REAL WORLD, which focused on various groups of teenagers in various cities around the country.

What year did Bunim and Lemay work together on SFT? I loved SFT but lost total interest in it when it moved to NBC. I am assuming CBS got rid of it because of it attracting older viewers. And as to Marland…I noticed during the transition between Bunim and Calhoun/Marland the ratings deep for ATWT for the first year and then went back up after Marland had a whole year to make changes.

 

Thank you very much for your thoughts

I would love to hear yours, as well!

 

What year did Bunim and Lemay work together on SFT? I loved SFT but lost total interest in it when it moved to NBC. I am assuming CBS got rid of it because of it attracting older viewers. And as to Marland…I noticed during the transition between Bunim and Calhoun/Marland the ratings deep for ATWT for the first year and then went back up after Marland had a whole year to make changes.

A poster named FrenchFan posted this comprehensive list of SFT writers, in the cancelled Soaps forum here on SON, indicating that lemay wrote the show in 1981:

 

Agnes Nixon (1951)

Irving Vendig (1951-1956)

Charles Gussman (1956-1957)

Frank & Doris Hursley (1957-1963)

Julian Funt & David Lesan (1963-1965)

Leonard Kantor & Doris Frankel (1965-1968)

Lou Scofield (1968)

Robert Soderberg & Edith Sommer (1968-1969)

Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt (1969-1973)

Theodore Apstein (1973-1974)

Gabrielle Upton (1974)

Ann Marcus (1974-1975)

Peggy O’Shea (1975-1976)

Irving & Tex Elman (1976-1977)

Robert J. Shaw (1977- April 1978)

Henry Slesar (April 1978 – August 1978)

Joyce & John William Corrington (August 1978 – May 1980)

Linda Gorver & John Porterfield (May 1980 – November 1980)

Gabrielle Upton (November 1980 – April 1981)

Harding Lemay (April 1981 – July 1981)

Don Chastain (July 1981 – December 1981)

Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt (December 1981 – July 1982)

C. David Colson (July 1982 – September 1982)

Gary Tomlin (September 1982 – April 1984)

Jeanne Glynn & Madeline David (April 1984 – June 1984)

Caroline Franz & Jeanne Glynn (June 1984 – March 1985)

Paul Avila Mayer & Stephanie Braxton (March 1985 – October 1985)

Gary Tomlin (October 1985 – July 1986)

Pamela K. Long & Addie Walsh (July 1986 – December 1986)

There were some gems among the writers, and some real duds. Don Chastain, who took over the show after Lemay, once complained that TPTB never cared about what was best for SFT's own individual style, tone, history, and characters. The mandate was to copy what GENERAL HOSPITAL was doing, in hopes of cashing in on that show's success. Typical stupidity from TPTB.

 

Marland quickly repaired much of the damage that had been done to ATWT, upon his return, but I think it took longtime viewers a while to be lured back to the show, after being burned by its previous mediocrity. He really revitalized that show the way he had GH.

Didn't Bunim have some issue with Maree Cheatham as well or am I wrong? 

 

Was she ever at RH? 

 

What year did Bunim and Lemay work together on SFT? I loved SFT but lost total interest in it when it moved to NBC. I am assuming CBS got rid of it because of it attracting older viewers. And as to Marland…I noticed during the transition between Bunim and Calhoun/Marland the ratings deep for ATWT for the first year and then went back up after Marland had a whole year to make changes.

A poster named FrenchFan posted this comprehensive list of SFT writers, in the cancelled Soaps forum here on SON, indicating that lemay wrote the show in 1981:

 

Agnes Nixon (1951)

Irving Vendig (1951-1956)

Charles Gussman (1956-1957)

Frank & Doris Hursley (1957-1963)

Julian Funt & David Lesan (1963-1965)

Leonard Kantor & Doris Frankel (1965-1968)

Lou Scofield (1968)

Robert Soderberg & Edith Sommer (1968-1969)

Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt (1969-1973)

Theodore Apstein (1973-1974)

Gabrielle Upton (1974)

Ann Marcus (1974-1975)

Peggy O�Shea (1975-1976)

Irving & Tex Elman (1976-1977)

Robert J. Shaw (1977- April 1978)

Henry Slesar (April 1978 � August 1978)

Joyce & John William Corrington (August 1978 � May 1980)

Linda Gorver & John Porterfield (May 1980 � November 1980)

Gabrielle Upton (November 1980 � April 1981)

Harding Lemay (April 1981 � July 1981)

Don Chastain (July 1981 � December 1981)

Ralph Ellis & Eugenie Hunt (December 1981 � July 1982)

C. David Colson (July 1982 � September 1982)

Gary Tomlin (September 1982 � April 1984)

Jeanne Glynn & Madeline David (April 1984 � June 1984)

Caroline Franz & Jeanne Glynn (June 1984 � March 1985)

Paul Avila Mayer & Stephanie Braxton (March 1985 � October 1985)

Gary Tomlin (October 1985 � July 1986)

Pamela K. Long & Addie Walsh (July 1986 � December 1986)

There were some gems among the writers, and some real duds. Don Chastain, who took over the show after Lemay, once complained that TPTB never cared about what was best for SFT's own individual style, tone, history, and characters. The mandate was to copy what GENERAL HOSPITAL was doing, in hopes of cashing in on that show's success. Typical stupidity from TPTB.

 

Marland quickly repaired much of the damage that had been done to ATWT, upon his return, but I think it took longtime viewers a while to be lured back to the show, after being burned by its previous mediocrity. He really revitalized that show the way he had GH.

SFT did have some great HWs….I noticed that during Lemay and Chastain years the ratings for SFT dropped…probably interference in the writing? Isn't Don Chastain the same person who appeared on ATWT during the whole Lily and Simon stranded story during Hogan's run? He also script wrote for ATWT.

 

I never knew Don Chastain had been a HW.

Edited November 23, 201510 yr by Soapsuds

Was Chastain the one who was supposedly an actor who'd been fired by the show and then took over during a writers strike?

Didn't Bunim have some issue with Maree Cheatham as well or am I wrong? 

 

Was she ever at RH? 

I remember Maree saying she had had issues with a producer, but I cannot recall if Bunim was the one.

 

As far as I know, Bunim worked on SFT, ATWT, SB, and LOVING, but never on RH.

Was Chastain the one who was supposedly an actor who'd been fired by the show and then took over during a writers strike?

Chastain played Dr. Taper on SFT in 1980 and 81, before taking over the writing reigns during the strike, yes.

 

SFT did have some great HWs….I noticed that during Lemay and Chastain years the ratings for SFT dropped…probably interference in the writing? Isn't Don Chastain the same person who appeared on ATWT during the whole Lily and Simon stranded story during Hogan's run? He also script wrote for ATWT.

 

I never knew Don Chastain had been a HW.

Yes, Chastian also wrote scripts for and appeared on ATWT. His only credit as headwriter was on SFT, as far as I know. He also wrote a screenplay for a film called THE MAFU CAGE., for which he won the Best Screenplay award at the Paris Film festival. He even won a Grammy Award in 1963 for his NO STRINGS.

I have a question was Agnes Nixon's writing style the same on all the soaps she was Head Writer or did it change?