AMC/OLTL: What PP should have done IMO

[John]

Yep she left for personal reasons. TR was fired but Jen Pepperman said to Muchael Fairman that Jessica & Marin work very well together,

As for AMC, Marlene & Betsy had never written AMC prior & Agnes had a big hand in their story. They were replaced with Chip & Lisa who have years of history at AMC

I feel these will be good changes.

Also to note that these new HW's have been part of their shows since the beginning of PP's revival so they already know the story arcs. Its not like bringing in someone with no history to helm the ships

[Chris B]

I remember about DAYS and Bill Bell, now that you bring that to my attention. I don't know anything about AMC history, so that is probably right. I think ATWT was good from the start since there wasn't much (if any) turnover and it was such a big success. But overall, soaps rarely start off perfect. I think we've been lucky, even considering all the problems I've personally had with each of them.

[EricMontreal22]

Oh I do completely agree with your main point.

[Soaplovers]

I remember Sunset Beach had a very rocky start... I think they redid their opening credits, wrote out a few characters and introduced new characters all within the first six to nine months of the show.

I think the big mis-step Passions had was the Sheridan connection to Princess Di.. even having a car chase scene that was similiar as well as flashbacks to Sheridan hanging out with Princess Di. I remember that was ended suddenly and Sheridan came back to Harmony then starting the push/pull relationship with Luis quite quickly after that.

Port Charles' big issue was that Lucy/Scotty/Kevin story was too separate from the intern story for the first few months. It was almost like two separate shows in one. I know the show corrected that later with tying Eve and Julie to them.. but I remembered watching thinking I liked both shows but wondered why they were within one show LOL

I think if AMC had hired just Mcpherson and paired her with either Lisa Connor or Chip Hayes. then I think some of the early issues wouldn't have occured (i.e. too much focus on the young characters, very little on the veterans.. and the veteran characters not acting too in character when they were featured).

I do like that Jessica Klein had served as head-writer for the last several episodes.. and that when T Racina was fired.. they kept her and paired her with Marin G... who I hear is a big fan of character driven scenes and wanting characters to act in character.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Like I said, I watched both shows up until the point when the writer changes were announced. Which part of what I said were you referring to? I was thinking of AMC specifically when I said what I did about the young actors. I actually thought most of them had at least raw talent and/or charisma. But from what I saw, they were on every day without being challenged in ways that helped them develop their inherent abilities, and the directors didn't seem to be channeling their potential in any thought-out way (how could they, again with the reported shooting schedule and lack of real rehearsals?).

As far as what I said about changing course, how could they not? Promoting from within or not, new writers always do that, and I would think that was the directive they were given and the reason for the change.

As I said, I sat through (most of) the excruciating Cassandra stuff, thinking it might be leading to something meaningful. Last I watched, the kidnappers left her drugged in her parents' house (I wonder if that's ever happened to a trafficking victim? It looked to me like someone just completely gave up and couldn't figure out a plausible way to get her out of that situation) and the plot point was being used as fodder for a cute-sie romantic comedy/adventure for Thorsten Kaye and that actress who played the godawful Pilar Sanchez on Guiding Light. I don't know if that turnaround was the new writers or not, and I'm not saying that the original writers would have done the story justice - I could see the pregnancy coming when Bianca was deliberating telling Miranda about her paternity while all of that was going on with Cassandra, and I thought it was the last thing this show needed - but I was still hoping for the best.

I don't feel as strongly about any of the other stories being 86ed, but I was really trying to watch with an open mind. I thought that maybe with writers who weren't as co-opted into the network way of doing things over the past 15-20 years and without Prospect Park presumably micromanaging the way the networks did, any or all of the stories could have been leading to a real pay-off that was planned from the beginning. Now I just don't believe what's happening three to six month from now is going to reflect much of anything that was in the works back in April.

[DeliaIrisFan]

Yes, every new soap has kinks to work out, but what network soaps had head writer changes so soon out of the gate? Port Charles has been mentioned…and we see how that turned out. Texas? I think even the Corringtons lasted a lot longer there than either of these shows' teams? The only daytime soap that went on to be successful in the long-term that comes to mind is Another World. Agnes Nixon, ironically, was the one who stepped in and turned it around after it foundered for the first year or two amidst the backstage turmoil, but has anyone suggested that at this point she's really the driving force behind either of these shows? Didn't she say in print the last time she stepped in as head writer for AMC, circa the '90s, that she no longer had the energy to head write a show long-term?

And even with established soaps, when has an entire production company making behind-the-scenes overhauls across the board ever turned out well? P&G circa 1981 or 1995? ABC circa 2002? Not that most/all of the shows involved were stellar to begin with at the times, but sweeping change for the sake of change has rarely been a good thing for soaps. Proper planning and hiring good people and giving them breathing room to tell good stories has usually been better, although it's been so long since anyone running these shows tried it.

Maybe the next Agnes Nixon is out there, and maybe he/she is now head writing one of these shows and will be around long enough to prove him/herself. I hope so, and if one of these writing regimes is still around and people are actually excited about where the stories are going months from now, I'll give it another shot. But I went through too much behind-the-scenes musical chairs in the last decade or so of network shows to wait around and watch repeated stops and starts again.

[DeliaIrisFan]

I actually don't think Ryan's Hope was terrible at the beginning. It was flawed, and even correcting some of those flaws - e.g., the first months were spent telling the audience how wonderful a character who was slowly dying was, and with a few weeks they came to the conclusion that they couldn't kill him off - led to other flaws, (like the fact that virtually every story had to be rewritten and the day player they hired for that role was not a good actor and had to be replaced, by which point most viewers were probably wishing the character had been killed to begin with). But the writers who came up with those characters and believed in the overall direction of the story were still there to right the ship, and a year (and a half dozen or so recasts) later, the show was much improved…with a lot of the same character development that appeared to have been planned from the beginning. There would have been no point in anyone having watched, otherwise.

[robbwolff]

Agnes Nixon herself was only head writer of Search for Tomorrow for its first 13 weeks before she was replaced.

[Vee]

Delia, I'm sorry because I do respect you and your posts, but there's been major payoff in the Cassandra storyline, and if you haven't watched it since then, then I mean it in the nicest possible way, and that's saying something for me around here - you don't have a leg to stand on with what you're trying to talk about. They did a very solid abortion tale with the actors about Cassandra's choice, did some amazing work, topped it off with a PSA, and it was clearly right out of Agnes Nixon's playbook. It was some of the best soap storytelling I've seen in years. I've seen absolutely no suggestion of her work or her team being co-opted or micromanaged. Everything's proceeded apace; there's been no sudden course changes in any storyline that I've noticed since the beginning. The most you could say was that Celia was given time off for a few weeks.

As for why the traffickers let Cassandra go, it was part of a larger storyline with Jesse having colluded with them in order to save his stepdaughter. This was all clearly established onscreen at the time. That storyline - what Jesse did, and what it resulted in - is still going on and has had a massive effect on everyone involved, from Jesse and Angie to right down the line, and it looks like it's not over yet. It's not about a Meet Cute storyline for Zach and Lea at all. They're the subplot - the meat of the arc has been Angie, Jesse, Cassandra and David (and Uri Koslov, the chief trafficker).

I'll have to disagree with you about most of the young actors - I think most of them are very good. And according to Thorsten Kaye and some of the footage we've seen, there are in fact some rehearsals.

You're also not accounting for the fact that in the case of both shows, both have promoted from within, with writers who were on the original teams we started with. The two writers who took over AMC have been working these stories all along, and have also been at AMC for years - they're apparently working closely with Agnes Nixon as well. I think if anything they're having the most seamless change possible. And frankly, if you went in with all these preconceptions about what you think happened and when you think it happened, you're denying yourself what I think has been a damn good run for a first season of AMC. And that's too bad.

[EricMontreal22]

I was going to post something similar about the payoff of Cass' story. The abortion scenes were some of the best, and most mature soap I've seen in a decade. I respect and enjoy Deliah's posts too--and of course it's easy to get defensive, but I can't help thinking that she (he?) bailed just when he actually may have been won over by NOT seeing much of what he assumed she was going to see (including better directing for the young actors)--which is too bad, but of course her prerogative.

While there obviously is a rush and a lack of rehearsal to an extent, for both AMC and OLTL actors have commented on how more attention has been given and more time to rehearsal than the soaps on ABC had for the past 5+ years when that was severely cut due to budget.

I have to argue Deliah's point about the changed in HW being done because the shows obviously want a big change in story direction. Frankly, while a bit of lip service has been (fairly and not) paid to how the originally hired writers didn't know the vet characters or in the case of OLTL were a bit too traditional, cynically (but I think I'm right) the main reason for the change is not to change direction, but because the shows initially hired soap writers with headwriting experience to kick start these shows due to having so little time (literally a couple of weeks with AMC.) Now that that's settled down, they can promote from within and use writers who now have more experience--and frankly are almost assuredly *cheaper*. Yeah saying they did this to cost them less money may not inspire a lot of faith, although I think it makes a lot of sense.

Delilah said, re RH: "But the writers who came up with those characters and believed in the overall direction of the story were still there to right the ship, and a year (and a half dozen or so recasts) later, the show was much improved…with a lot of the same character development that appeared to have been planned from the beginning. There would have been no point in anyone having watched, otherwise."

And this is absolutely what's happening with the PP shows, as well, IMHO. Besides the fact that the new writers are being promoted from within, it also should be pointed out that--much like in the 50s-80s before network execs became so creatively controlling--the vision and story tone and direction of both AMC and OLTL are very much the work of the Exec Producers--who have remained the same.

[EricMontreal22]

Search of Tomorrow was mentioned--when Nixon was used for the first three months but apparently had a sharp difference of opinion with the creator. Dark Shadows is an obvious example as well.

Days of Our Lives had nearly as major a turnaround as AW--it wasn't until Bill Bell took over a year or two into the run that the show showed any signs of life.

Nixon said that she couldn't return as a HW after her last brief stint to help AMC in the late 90s partly also due to family issues such as her terminally ill husband. She has implied that she has much more free time now. Ginger Smith has mentioned that she would not have joined AMC as EP without Nixon's active involvement. We also heard a lot of stories about Nixon even being on set and very involved in the final months of AMC on ABC (no matter what you thought of what was done there.) I could go on and on. Of course, this can always be argued, but it's obvious that she definitely is consulting right now, IMHO, and I think I'm cynical enough not to just be doing that out of wishful thinking.

My main argument with your points is that the way I read your posts is you've been burned before so bailed ship due to assumptions based on what has happened recently with other soaps. But simply hasn't happened in the case here with AMC--the show, again IMHO, continues to improve with each week and learn from its mistakes--but NOT by suddenly dropping things or changing directions sharply,

"Now I just don't believe what's happening three to six month from now is going to reflect much of anything that was in the works back in April."

Well so far, nearly every story has been based on elements set up back then...

[greens_dupres]

I'm totally with you here. I never thought that the HW changes were related to anything other than money- not OLTL pacing, not the writing for Jesse Hubbard . While I think there were valid points (and many invalid ones) about some missteps by both HW teams (probably moreso OLTL than AMC), these changes were announced after less than a month & those things could have been addressed & likely worked out in time with those writers going forward. I've always felt its exactly what you said- they got some experienced HWs to churn out long story FAST because they were up against pressing deadlines. And then they promoted cheaper scriptwriters after seeing some of their work. I haven't taken as much notice of the individual writers on AMC but I know that I really generally have liked Mairin's OLTL eps. I actually had no problem with them doing this for financial reasons and I really don't expect any massive overhaul other than the tweaking they'll now need to do as they've also altered the model.

[robbwolff]

Also, Richard and Carolyn Culliton only lasted six months as Port Charles' first head writers. The show was only the air for 2-3 months when it was announced they were being placed with Lynn Marie Latham. Stephen and Elinor Karpf were also out pretty quickly as Capitol's first head writers. I think they were there for about five months.

[Steve]

+1! There was a tremendous payoff to the Cassandra storyline for those of us who kept watching. It was some of the best soap opera I've seen in the past 10 years!

I think you're right about the reason for the writer change. Even though the new writers may be cheaper, I'm looking forward to what they bring to both soaps.

[EricMontreal22]

Chip Hayes has gotten some bad word of mouth (cuz of his name?) but he delivered two of the best scripts in soap history IMHO in the past couple of weeks.