AMC/OLTL: What PP should have done IMO

[allmc2008]

Exactly what I was getting at!!

[DramatistDreamer]

I'm not trying to be sarcastic or smart but has anyone worked behind the scenes of a film or TV series? Because I have and it isn't as basic as some are making it. The cost for a film, even a MOW, takes $ and I wonder whether people would rather PP put their efforts and dollars behind the actual show or a two hour movie? Because I don't believe they'd be able to do both, especially on the timeline that people are expecting.

I do agree with those who say that proper planning and preparation went begging in this effort but had PP really done due diligence in that effort, especially for a movie as a preamble. I believe on that timeline, we'd all still be waiting for that movie to happen, never mind the series.

One thing, I could honestly say that I would have preferred PP actually do (that's not wishlist but fixable), is do a better job in releasing the timetable, i.e. as to when they are going to release information and what specific information they will release about how they will adapt, correct things, etc.

In the tech world (which they are technically a part of since they are primarily still a web based series--they shoot in digital format), these type of rapid fire series of announcements are nothing new and unremarkably expected.

In the traditional media world, though, these types of rapidly announced changes are met with mostly anxiety. It's not seen as quick adaptation, as it would in the Tech sphere, instead viewed as suspicious, flightly and lacking in confidence and know how.

I think soap fans are so jumpy with all of the past's broken promises and untruths that they are prone to panic whenever a course is quickly changed, even if for the better. Fair enough. Once bitten, twice shy.

People sometimes forget, though, that in the very beginning, in the euphoria of getting these shows back to the viewers, PP mentioned that this was an experiment of sorts. They actually used the words experiment, from what I can recall. An experiment implies that they will get things wrong and change course, not just rarely, or occasionally but often. I think this is where the divide between perception and expectation meets, or collides in this case.

[greens_dupres]

I'm confused by this- you say PP should have started smaller (which I pretty much agree with) but then say the casts should be bigger and have made a lot of comments that the model needs to be 5x a week in hour eps. Which is it?

Every time I start to complain about sets, I think of Peapack

[katie_9918]

This. Exactly.

Sit down, everyone.

[John]

They also built the sets so one side was for AMC & one side was for OLTL. They share all the sets. Hell Pete's new home on AMC is Natalie's on OLTL

I do wish Lea's office on AMC would be redressed differently. Its just the same as Bo's on OLTL.

I do miss the squad rooms on OLTL & AMC

[John]

LindaTNO1 Watch this

[EnglishTea]

Perhaps it would have been cost prohibitive, but I loved the movie premiere of "Loving."

[DeliaIrisFan]

If it would have met the terms of the contract with ABC, then absolutely. Would it have?

The sets and production values otherwise are amazing, as far as I'm concerned - that's not the problem. But they clearly picked whatever writers were available without real thought to the long-term, and then dispensed with them so quickly that it seems hard to believe it was even based on the reaction to what was being written, given there was barely enough time to see it on-screen. I was trying to keep up at the beginning until all of the head writers were fired in one fell swoop, even though I had a lot going on in my life at the time that I had planned with the mindset that watching a soap on a near-daily basis was long behind me, by process of elimination if nothing else.

And I actually had some hope that the stories were building to something that would be worth sticking around to see. But once the people producing this told me that the long-term story didn't have enough value to keep the people who came up with around, I gave up. And especially with some of the material they were leading with...viewers were being asked to go on a very difficult journey with Cassandra, and to be told that there was nobody in the driver's seat?

A movie - on the same budget as the pilots, which premiered with as much fanfare as movies, right down to those premiere events - could have focused largely on a self-contained story, perhaps involving some guest stars; generated some renewed interest; and positioned the cast members who were likely to be available in the near-term via a new cliffhanger/jumping off point. I bet most if not all of the writers hired out of the gate would have thought it was a trip to be offered a one-off job like that, even knowing they would likely not be asked back on a permanent basis, not to mention there aren't a lot of soaps left that are hiring. Then find the storytellers you want/can afford long-term, before asking viewers to make a significant investment of time, and give the writers time to map out a story bible that would reward the investment.

Also, more thought was needed as to the production schedule. It sounds like the actors are overworked and there's virtually no rehearsal time, and it shows - especially with the young, inexperienced actors. That's been a big part of the problem with network soaps in their final years, IMO. Soap acting has been ridiculed since the beginning, largely unfairly I would say, but squeezing more blood out of the stone in one of the broadcast media with the least amount of preparation is not a good place to cut corners.

[Vee]

Delia, have you actually been watching AMC? Because it's basically the opposite of what you describe in terms of its writing and stories and follow-through.

If you're going to give up on a soap every time there's a HW change - especially in a raw new start-up - you're not going to have any left, and you know that. If there had been some massive overnight sea change I might see your point, but there hasn't been and I'm frankly not expecting one as they promoted from within and appear committed to the stories they're telling with the characters they're telling them with.

[LindaTNo1]

I see some valid points here in this commenting. As a babyboomer, I have watched the show since its beginning. Prospect Park specifically said that they were invested to retain the dedicated and faithful longtime fans like myself while expanding to new viewership too. They spoke of the key age demo 18-49 that they were also going to be zeroing in on (advertisers). Then they announced the 4 day a week, 30 minutes a day schedule which they failed to follow through on with fans and viewers alike. Now it has been chopped up, sliced up, and shredding all the way down to just 2 episodes at 20 some odd minutes per episodes to attempt to have a show. Then the Headwriting change, the forced extended hiatus, the union mess with the crew, worries over budget, the first Prospect Park deal collapse and failure, and PP generally not holding up to their campaign selling points in the beginning of promoting the shows, both shows. Their trustworthiness and honesty continues to come into question.

You are right about actors being overworked and no quality rehearsal/blocking time. Just rush and hurry up production. The younger less experienced actors are not being given a fair chance with what they are being put through.

Ginger Smith is in the drivers seat, so far. According to Jen Pepperman of OLTL, PP is not favoring bringing back characters from the dead and so they seem to be putting their two cents worth in as far as characters/storylines go. Agnes Nixon, Ginger Smith and the writers are at the mercy of PP when it comes to characters/storylines because PP still signs the checks. I was very surprised to to hear that PP was putting their input into storylines/characters.

AMC and OLTL are a shell of their former selves with a skeleton cast and significantly reduced schedule/airtimes. Both are down to the bare minimum of less than 1 hour per week, 20 something minutes, 2 episodes. Audiences are just going to see bullet points/moments/snippets of stories without in depth character driven build up and little substance to allow audiences to see the why's and how's. So alot will be missing in storylines, incomplete in some ways. The Cassandra storyline made a huge mistake by not having her father Jacob in the storyline. It was not realistic. There is still Uri out there and the writers failed to wrap up that angle of the storyline to move on to other storylines. Ginger Smith in her interview did say that there can be NO ROOM FOR ERROR when they come back into production this month August timeframe. So she realizes that writing, continuity and production consistencies and accuracy has to happen.

The 5 year gap probably did not help in some ways too. A starting point/jumping off point might have been better if that 5 year gap never happened.

At the end of the day, would AMC and OLTL be better suited for at least a 4-5 day a week, 30-60 minutes a day type of show? Who knows but with going back into production, it is my hope that PP will try harder this time to be more honest and trustworthy to the fans and not say something that they have to take back later on and get a better PR team in place in dealing with announcements/sudden out of nowhere changes that has been consistently going on from the start. and take their time in the decision making process with changes. Slow down the train PP.

[Vee]

Linda, I'm sorry but you are making this up. No one has even suggested that PP is micromanaging Agnes and the creative team at AMC, anywhere. And you know it. Having a preference about overall creative choices is not the same thing as what you describe.

Uri is still around because that story isn't over yet. And Jacob hasn't appeared on a soap opera since 1997, but I notice you haven't said [!@#$%^&*] about that because in 2008 it was okay since Angie and Jesse were getting married.

As for the gap, when the hell were they supposed to start, then? With what cast? The 50% unpopular no-hopers that were on the show in 2011, or the other 40% who left and refused to come back? A five-year gap was the perfect jumping off point.

Face it: You're the only one trying to push a crisis narrative with AMC, because you're the only one who can't stand that it's not doing what you emotionally need.

[allmc2008]

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1st, the shows have been around 25 minutes per episode since the beginning. Also, they said 30 minutes WITH COMMERCIAL!!!!!! At least we are not getting 17 minutes like Bold/Beautiful!

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As for the actors. That is how it has alwasy been in Daytime. You are aware at one time they were 30 minutes and LIVE!!! They hardly got rehearsal time even then. Either you knew it or you didn't!! Daytime is HARD. That is just the nature of the beast!!

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What is wrong with getting rid of "Back From the Dead". All that does is give mainstream media an excuse to harass the shows. From a storyline stand point, BFTD tends to create so many story and plot holes it aint funny. This is actually good for the writers because now they will be challenged to find another way to get rid of a character besides killing them. Also, PP has to check the scripts to make sure EVERYTHING is in par with the HuLu/OWN guidelines. I also noticed cursing is back so they are listening to us!!

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If you were to take an episode of AMC from the 70s and compare it to an episode from the 80s both episodes will have the same feel. If you were to watch compare an episode from the 70s or 80s to a 90s episode both will have the same feel. If you were to compare an episode from the 70s, or 80s, or 90s to the shows last 5-10 years on ABC AMC it will seem like 2 different shows. If you were to compare a 70s/80s/90s episode to a current episode it will feel like the same show.

The shows have been twice a week for several weeks now and they are just as character driven and have just as much depth as they did from the beginning.

Enough about Jacob!! Part of being a soap viewer is the ability to suspend disbelief and using imagination. Maybe Jacob has died? Maybe Jesse/Angie didn't want to tell him for some reason and they are setting up a meaty story about Jacob finding out through the grapevine and raising hell?

I don't think they dropped the Uri story at all. I also don't see how you see that! Can you please give us some backing for this claim?? Also, if they dropped the storyline that shouldn't surprise you considering soaps have always done that. Also, a lot of people complained about the story so dropping it is just more proof they are listening!

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Ok then, since you are a seasoned "Babyboomer who have watched since the beginning" please describe to us in detail your solution.

[greens_dupres]

And here I was thinking without Jesse/Angie in the eps we'd get through a week "shell of their former selves with a skeleton cast." and the tired "better suited" for 5 days a week 60 minutes argument. Oh well.

I'm not saying I haven't been thrown by some of the changes but they never promised this would be the model for all eternity. There was a LOT of talk about it being a new territory, almost an experiment, figuring out what works etc. I think most of us knew it would not be smooth sailing right away even if we hoped otherwise.

Isn't this the case with all soaps right now? I don't think they had significant rehearsal time on AMC for years. The young actors are mostly doing fine- Denyse Tontz, Eric Nelsen, Brooke Newton, I guess even your favorite Sal Stowers. Sure JLP is inexperienced and Daniel Colvin is just Daniel Colvin but young actors not being master class thespians is not an issue unique to the PP soaps. And its existed in soaps for decades even in the glory years of ample money and rehearsal time.

Why? Because ABC was so uninvolved? Because Frons was a laissez faire kind of exec? Of course they should give creative input since its their millions on the line. And like Vee said, there's been no suggestion of micromanagement from anyone. JP did not say oh PP tells us exactly what to do. Everyone including the #1 supercouple Debbi & Darnell have said Agnes is extremely involved and has creative freedom for the first time in years.

I could not disagree more that AMC or OLTL lack substance or character driven moments. Do you even watch OLTL? Not to hate on the network soaps but with 48 minutes a week, they both often (always?) do more character driven stuff than a full week of those shows. And certainly more than AMC or OLTL did in the later years. If anything, OLTL was all character driven stuff some weeks and not enough story movement.

I will always commend Ginger Smith for doing this. AMC needed this- and she knew this because she had spent decades there. It allowed the writers and Agnes to take back the canvas, reset it and make it their own. It rejuvenated a show that to use your words had on ABC in the last five years become in many ways "a shell of its former self."

[Vee]

There also is footage in the BTS material of the rehearsals at AMC, BTW. So yes, rehearsal time does exist.

[allmc2008]

This is OT but I think ALL soaps should do a 5 year jump....