I imagine AN hearing about something like EH's firing and just sort of sucking her teeth and shaking her head like my grandmother, like, "Well, what are ya gonna do..."

That scenario makes me want to puke.

On the other hand, there's nothing AN, or anyone else, could have done to save their jobs. Yes, AN was a "consultant" to OLTL, but what does that really mean? In most cases, consultants to this-or-that series offer suggestions when called upon, but if TPTB don't wish to incorporate those suggestions, they don't have to. As full owners of AMC and OLTL, ABC could have done (and did) with those shows whatever they wished, and no amount of bitch-pitching would have stopped them.

Frankly, although some will argue she was just using EH and LH again to save another one of her shows, I think it says a lot that AN offered to bring the two over to LOVING. I mean, it's not as if their joining would have translated into higher ratings for the show.

Meanwhile, I'd normally suggest getting Ellen Holly a job on Y&R (perhaps, as Sofia's mother). Unfortunately, that show's so bad off, I don't know.

Edited December 17, 201113 yr by Khan

That's fascinating...she shouldn't feel like she wasted her life working on the show

Again, though, I can't blame her. She doesn't even get a shout-out in the "Fraternity Row" storyline.

Edited December 17, 201113 yr by Khan

Meanwhile, I'd normally suggest getting Ellen Holly a job on Y&R (perhaps, as Sofia's mother). Unfortunately, that show's so bad off, I don't know.

No more soaps. The soaps are dead. I'd rather see her do a recurring gig on one of Shonda Rimes' wretched shows or a guest turn on The Good Wife. Perhaps as the mother to a defendant played by Victoria Rowell.

That was quite an informative read.

No more soaps. The soaps are dead. I'd rather see her do a recurring gig on one of Shonda Rimes' wretched shows or a guest turn on The Good Wife. Perhaps as the mother to a defendant played by Victoria Rowell.

It would be nice if someone in a place of power who knew her story would offer her a part like that instead of the usual suspects, your Diahann Carrolls, Cicely Tysons, and Ruby Dees, and Lord knows the pickins are slim even for them. But she is entitled to at least one Tyler Perry venture which she would elevate with her very presence. If they ever need a grandma on Are We There Yet?, it shoots not far from her.

She could have had a gorgeous soap career, acting out rich stories like the issue of colorism on OLTL decades later when grandchildren came.

Frankly, although some will argue she was just using EH and LH again to save another one of her shows, I think it says a lot that AN offered to bring the two over to LOVING. I mean, it's not as if their joining would have translated into higher ratings for the show.

I have to wonder how true this is though. Have Holly or Nixon ever went public about this? Neither seems to have acknowledged that such a move was presented.

I do think Nixon had quite a bit of power at ABC Daytime throughout the 80's/early 90's. I mean, they sure kept LOVING on the air for over a decade, despite it being both a massive flop ratings-wise and quality-wise. I do think that was all down to their loyalty and partnership with Agnes.

Should've, could've, would've...

But I do wonder if Agnes would've put her foot down regarding what happened to Holly and Hayman, if the situation would have been reversed and turned out differently at OLTL. Again, she might have been removed for the show at that point, but she certainly wasn't away from ABC Daytime and certainly had clout back then. But we just don't know the entire situation.

Edited December 17, 201113 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

In her book, which you all should try to read... I lent out my hardcover to a friend who knew Paul Rauch and I never got it back! ... she does mention that AN offered her a role on Loving when I believe they spoke over the phone. Frankly, I do not remember the details that she would be taking Carla to Corinth or that Lillian Hayman would go with her. EH told AN about all the changes PR was putting her through and AN said she was not surprised as she was familiar with his reputation in the business.

Thanks for the recap, SFK.

I wonder why Ellen turned down that offer. Unless she saw being brought to a struggling soap as some type of insult. Perhaps, she expected Agnes to offer her a role on AMC, which by that point had surpassed OLTL in the pop-culture stratosphere.

Ellen later played a recurring judge on GL in the early 90's, I believe that was her last daytime experience.

On the other hand, there's nothing AN, or anyone else, could have done to save their jobs. Yes, AN was a "consultant" to OLTL, but what does that really mean? In most cases, consultants to this-or-that series offer suggestions when called upon, but if TPTB don't wish to incorporate those suggestions, they don't have to. As full owners of AMC and OLTL, ABC could have done (and did) with those shows whatever they wished, and no amount of bitch-pitching would have stopped them.

Frankly, although some will argue she was just using EH and LH again to save another one of her shows, I think it says a lot that AN offered to bring the two over to LOVING. I mean, it's not as if their joining would have translated into higher ratings for the show.

Right, I take issue with Miss Holly's idea that AN was "using" her, I mean, she was "using" her in the way any writer would want to use an actor who was capable of driving the kind of story she was trying to tell. The fact that Carla and Sadie were kept around but marginally used had less to do with AN or the notion that she held onto them to ensure a black audience. Honestly, I think AN's plate was beyond full with her duties at AMC and she'd handed over the keys to the city of Llanview.

Thanks for the recap, SFK.

I wonder why Ellen turned down that offer. Unless she saw being brought to a struggling soap as some type of insult. Perhaps, she expected Agnes to offer her a role on AMC, which by that point had surpassed OLTL in the pop-culture stratosphere.

Ellen later played a recurring judge on GL in the early 90's, I believe that was her last daytime experience.

You're welcome. Yeah, I wish I could remember why she turned down Loving, I think she was just burned/spent at that point.

Ellen later played a recurring judge on GL in the early 90's, I believe that was her last daytime experience.

Was this under JFP or Laibson? Because somehow I don't think she'd ever work for Rauch again (nor would he want to work with her again, either). Given JFP's reputation, I'd be VERY interested to find out what EH thought of her if she was who she worked for.

But she is entitled to at least one Tyler Perry venture which she would elevate with her very presence.

Sorry, if you weren't on a CBS show, Tyler Perry don't know ya.

Ellen later played a recurring judge on GL in the early 90's, I believe that was her last daytime experience.

And who got her that role? Miss "White Power" herself, Jill Farren Phelps. You think you know a person....