Good points, Jane. For everyone who thinks Bob Guza was a great writer for GH, you'll find many who thought he was sadistic and cruel. There are some who like MAB over at Y&R, others who can't stand what the show's become under her.

We definitely complain to much. But I like it here as opposed to another site, where people are allowed to come in, tell you why they're right and you're wrong, and to sit down and shut up. At least we all whine together here. LOL

I think part of it is that the soap press of today, mostly online, overhypes writers and producers - for long periods of time the focus was on fawning profiles of MAB, RC, Valentini, Hogan Sheffer (and any anti-soap comments he made were just lauded even more...oh how daring!). The shows themselves were afterthoughts.

I probably complain more than anybody else here at SON, and I realize that turns people off.

However, I agree with somebody's earlier statement that the complaining here is timid compared to other message boards. If one wants to go to a site where things get very nasty and personal, I recommend mediadomain.com. (Which aside from the nastiness, is actually a pretty good site.)

Edited September 10, 201114 yr by Max

Yes. It's a ridiculously stupid misguided belief that if you write 32 times in a daily thread that "Brian Frons is Evil" and "Current Head Writer is a 'Hack'" that something will change from it. It's one thing to express yourself, but expressing the same opinion REDUNDANTLY isn't going to change the way things are.

Yup, and I know I'm as guilty of that as anyone else, but I feel the need everytime Zzzendull take up airtime on AMC to complain in that day's thread.

But seriously, folks...

We complain -- and in most cases, we complain loudly and often -- because we are all so passionate about this genre...

But what if the problem lies not in the actual shows, but in our expectations from them?

What if we are rarely happy w/ these shows, because we just expect too much from them, quality-wise?

Would we be more content just to do what so many have suggested, accept that it's "just a soap opera" and have fun with them, regardless?

No, because they're not just soap operas. They're shows that used to be at time hilarious and at times inspiring. I got hooked on AMC back in the early 1980s due to Nina & Cliff and later Greg & Jenny, but I stayed hooked due to well-told social issue stories like Mark's battle with drug addiction, Cindy struggling with AIDS and people's fear of it and Michael Delaney's coming out to his high school class. Now, I don't have time to watch all the shows, but from what I've seen on the current AMC and the shows on SoapNet, that type of storytelling just doesn't exist anymore. Daytime used to be ahead of the curve and now it just keeps relying on tropes like Back From the Dead and Who Stole Whose Baby stories.

I think a lot of the complaining has to do with the fact that soaps haven't/didn't come into the modern world where viewer feedback is concerned. There are some primetime/cable shows that embrace viewer feedback in all its forms. I've had some experiences with other shows that put soaps to shame. (I've mentioned these examples a million times before so for those who are tired of hearing them, my apologies.)

• The Good Wife (CBS): The costume designer for TGW has a blog on CBS.com where he takes viewer questions. Two seasons ago, I fell in love with a dress Julianna Margulies wore in a particular episode and asked who designed it. Not only did I get an answer (Alfred Kors), he sent me the link to the website in case I wanted to buy it.
  
• Leverage (TNT): John Rogers, one of the showrunners for Leverage, runs his own blog and after EVERY episode he opens up a question post where you can ask him anything about what happened in that show. He answers all of the questions, barring repeats and trolls, and actually addresses viewer complaints.
  
• Psych (USA): The showrunner for Psych often goes on the USA message board to address viewer questions and concerns.
  
• LOST (ABC): Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof used to do a weekly podcast where they discussed each episode and answered viewer mail. In one episode they even recorded phone conversations with fans (with permission) at their own expense.
  

These are all my own experiences but regardless soaps fail miserably when compare to them. Any acknowledgment I've every gotten from soaps came from the actor, not the show.

My point is that we complain "too much" because nobody listens. Sure certain fanbases get catered to but that's because TPTB want the same thing, not because the fanbase has any power and, frankly, I have less blame for those who complain, than I have for the members of the soap "press" that fell down on the job.

When Brian Frons first came onboard ABC Daytime, I wrote him a letter explaining what I thought was wrong with AMC and how he could fix it. Of course, it was probably not read, but I feel like we got frustrated because we tried to express our opinions directly to the people in charge and they ignored us. ABC in particular seemed to be out to drive away the long-time viewers for whatever reason and that made me at least want to say on here what wasn't being heard by Frons.

As for complaining, I do think that's one of the purposes of a forum, and I' don't think you necesarily have to back up every complaint with a way they could improve. But what bothers me is the same as others have said--people who say the exact same complaint time after time (I'm sure I've done this sometimes, but ), people who dislike a character so take it out on an actor, because you know they must be just like that, and this is a personal thing but I hate when people make sweeping statements like "If so and so is dropped from the show I will never watch again" and then continues to watchy, though that's more just a funny thing.

I have a friend who just got into soaps, thanks to me (he said he thought they were unwatchable before he found out I watched them and he gave them a shot) back in Feb, and now is obsessed. And he loves so much of the stuff about them right now--i know the last thing he wants to hear is me constantly saying, after he talks about loving a certain story or episode, "They used to be better!"

It kind of saddens me that some viewers think the current state of soaps is great. ITA, they used to all be much better and they could be again if the people running things cared about them as much as we do!

I can't remember the last time I thoroughly enjoyed everything on any daily soap opera from the writing to the acting and I started watching soaps as a tween. Perhaps there were individual episodes that I thought were outstanding, but there are always actors, characters and stories that I prefer over others. I don't expect to like every actor, character or story, but that said even if I like the majority of a cast, I have favorites. One of the great things about soaps is the variety, and the ability to see numerous stories with different performers going on and while some hit for me others don't, the idea that some work for others that I don't find appealing.

BL (who admits that even when I've enjoyed certain soaps tons, I usually find things that I think could have been better. That's part of my make up as a "critical" viewer, but I don't do that to bring people down.)

What was different for me was the variety of storylines 30 years ago. If you didn't like one couple or story, there were 6 or 7 more that were also frontburner. Somewhere along the line, the shows started doing more umbrella plots that involved half the town. If an umbrella story doesn't appeal to you and there are only 1 or 2 other stories, it's easy to just stop watching.

Overall, I try not to just say how bad a show is but to say what exactly I'm not enjoying about it. I know I'm frequently in the minority (for example, I couldn't stand the first Todd on OLTL and have no interest in watching two of them!), but I love this site because for the most part the other posters are respectful of your opinion even if they don't agree and we usually can find common ground eventually. A few years back, it seemed Cheap21 and I disagreed about most of couples and stories on AMC, but today we're usually in agreement on most of the show. And I have teasingly referred to EricMontreal22 as my lapdog because he and I seem to agree more often than not. So I say, keep complaining, be constructive and maybe someone behind the scenes will finally wake up and pay attention!