GH: Classic Thread

[titan1978]

Finally catching up on all the activity this thread has gotten in the last month or so.

Stone’s death was incredibly sad, and it was one of Maurice’s better subtle moments of real emotion. Another one I remember fondly was Sonny hugging Liz as she falls to the ground during the fire that everyone thinks killed Lucky. He seemed really affected by what Rebecca Herbst was doing.

The episode where everybody told Stone how much he meant to them was incredibly moving and special too.

The problem with Carly and Bobbie is that when the story started it was Bobbie’s story. By the time they had them working on a relationship it was really only being told from Carly’s side of things in 1998 and beyond. I remember watching as they made Jackie’s hair dark red and tried to sex her up again, and it just fell flat. This was also a period of time when she was offscreen for a bit and came back and the entire shape of her face had changed, becoming more rounded. That didn’t help. But Riche was a champion of Jackie and Bobbie staying front and center. I also think Jerry was miscast, like a lot of the show at that time.

I believe Vanessa requested the breakdown story in order to stay. And Guza’s late 1997 return officially kicked off with three main stories that started at pretty much the same time- Nikolas being shot, Carly telling Tony that Jason was her unborn baby’s father, and Brenda’s breakdown. And I remember immediately the soap press was calling out Brenda’s breakdown as being a mess while thinking Guza had otherwise revitalized the show.

I do think Jason and Brenda would have had legs, both because it was working in 2002 and also because Guza/Pratt clearly were writing at that time that Sonny/Carly were endgame.

Edited December 2, 2024 by titan1978

[Vee]

I remember all this, and it does make sense. I really liked Julian Stone myself, and him with Jackie. But (allegedly) Guza agreed with you - he was incensed by the casting and the making of Jerry into a cuddlier, more romantic figure for Bobbie when he had supposedly envisioned a hard-edged scoundrel and dangerous man. When he got the chance to remake Jerry in Sebastian Roche he did, hewing to that image. But of course he immediately took it beyond the point of no return for a promising character and actor. 

[dc11786]

Thanks! It's very interesting watching pre-Labine Riche era "General Hospital." Hardy's year wasn't spectacular, but there were things I enjoyed, couples that were interesting, and the cast was fairly stable in terms of who was front and center. Monty II starts with a bang but there is just no energy to keep me going in 1991. I suspect things will get better in the summer when the first Eckert reset occurs, but even then there are only some story characters I am interested in seeing (early AJ and Nancy Eckert), but not really any story until Harlan dies. The Bill-Julia dynamic is interesting once Harlan is dead. I'll get back there eventually once I can get all of 1992. 

I think Mary Mae's presence was a big part of what I enjoyed when I watched the first part of 1995. The dynamic between the Wards and the Quartermaines was very intricate and I wish more was done with the Charles Street  storyline. 

Kevin's presence in the episode felt important. I believe Kevin had just helped Stone to accept his dyslexia diagnosis right before he learned he was HIV+. I thought that was an interesting relationship. I struggled a bit with Sonny being the one to question where Stone's parents were given that Sonny did truly care for Stone, but Sonny did not really help Stone avoid the path he was on. With that said, I can only imagine that Stone's mother would have made Rhonda Wexler look like a saint.  

The Nikki-AJ story is just such a by product of all the turnover between 1991-1992 with writers and producers coming and going. A.J.'s arrival isn't great from what I have seen. He mostly seems to be annoying about Monica and Alan being divorced and using their divorce as the reason he was a jerk. I suspect the Montys were going to do a triangle between A.J., Nurse Sheila, and Joey Moscini, but they dropped Joey when the Eckerts flopped and the ratings collapsed. So A.J. ends up in  fling with cougar Nancy Eckert and then sorta falls into a triangle wiht Sheila and Eric Simpson. The last triangle is how I imagine a lot of late run Monty I teen stories played out with a lot of younger characters with no ties to the canvas. 

Nikki and David Langton seem to be something Linda Grover cooked up in her very brief time on the show. I think revisiting Dawn was a smart move and this was a way of not only not bringing her back from the dead, but providing the show with a young schemer. Though, I am unclear what the original plan for Nikki was as that period of Norma Monty is very scattered. Riche seems to kill off David immediately without even playing the real that Dawn was David's father. It's a very unique decision that I sorta love, but also sorta hate at the same time. Nikki moving into he Quartemarine home and pursuing the law suit against Monica and GH is fun from what I've seen. 

Nikki departs in Ocotber just as Marlayn Thoma exits. The next few months are choppy (but still compelling)and everything seems to reset around January/February. I don't get what they are doing with AJ in early 1993 unless this was when Riche was trying to get them to do the HIV   storyline.   

I don't think I've seen any of the Jenny was a virgin stuff, but that sounds up Levinson's alley. I wonder if that wasn't a way of backtracking as I imagine that might have been brought up earlier before the Kensington plot. I amnot really sure what the point of the dead baby was,  but I suspect part of the story was to justify Julia and Ned sleeping together. Ned and Julia are fun, but they aren't an endgame couple. 

Nikki was suppose to be a dead ringer for Dawn so I think there was certainly an angle to explore there if they continued to build up the A.J. / Ned rivalry. And Tracy wasn't a Nikki fan so that element could have been addressed down the line. 

I think they could have revealed the baby Nikki was carrying in 1993 was A.J's and that would have provided  drama for some time. However, I should be happy someone like Guza didn't bring her back and reveal the baby was Alan's because that seems to be  the level of filth that the Qs were enduring post-Riche. 

 

Thanks. I didn't really come into GH until the last few years and started with random scattering of 1993 episodes. It's very neat watching an era where a majority of the big couples are gone and the show is required to be a truer ensemblele than in other years. I can pop inot any 1992-1993 episode and be pretty engaged. 

[carolineg]

It's always such a shame to me we never got to see Brenda/Harlan interact-we just mostly heard about it from her POV.  I always considered the Julia/Harlan dynamic very interesting because Julia seemed like she was groomed to be the heir her whole life, had a lot of pressure to be perfect and she was still so young.  

I can't say I minded Julia/Bill.  TG and CC had nice chemistry.

 

Oh, I absolutely believe Kevin's reaction was important to the episode.  The duck stuff in the beginning just feels a bit out of place, but I can definitely understand where GH was coming from with some levity for such a heavy hour of tv.

Jagger had flashbacks of his mom and boyfriend? when he first was trying to find his siblings.  She left because he didn't want the kids around.  It appeared Jagger was much older than Stone/Gina, but this was before both of those parts were cast.  Jagger couldn't support two children at his age, so that's why they got split up into foster care. She was awful.  I don't think we ever got a clear picture about the dad.

I believe AJ was the first pitch for the HIV story.  Someone can correct my if I am wrong, but it was nixed at the time.  I always thought Nikki's son should have ended up as AJ's, but the time passed and then Michael became the main focus.

I am not really sure WHY Jenny told Ned she was a virgin.  It's not like he was.  I would assume it was because she was ashamed of her past.  Again, it just seemed dated at the time.

Edited December 3, 2024 by carolineg

[titan1978]

That was on the table when it was Riche/Levinson. She wanted real, topical, and gritty. I think she even said something along the lines of AJ not being gay but had participated in group sex and lines had been crossed. The network nixed it. Much like Billy Douglas, they didn’t hate the idea, just didn’t want it for a core family at the time.

Then she and Labine and others from the show were at a creative retreat with network people. She told Labine what they needed was a Romeo and Juliet type of story. Labine said Robin and Stone fall in love, he is HIV+ and gives it to her. Riche asked her if they truly could make a story of that, and Labine said absolutley. They went to the head of daytime, at the time Pat Krushel, and the story was approved at the retreat.

Later people at GH and the network wanted Stone to live, or Robin to not contract HIV, or both. And Labine said the tragedy is the whole point. Someone at ABC told her the story was breaking their heart, which was music to her ears.

This is something Labine struggled with at first when she took over the show. It wasn’t a family lead show, and she had all these characters of leftover regimes that were missing some connective tissue. She has said that her first year or so everything had some kind of connection to Luke and Laura by design. So even if Lois wasn’t directly tied to them, the Q’s were with the Bradley Ward reveal and the Charles Street project. Brenda through Sonny, etc.

[Vee]

It was mentioned in the obit thread but I'd never seen this Jackie interview, where she talks about many of her love interests. Also explains why Bobbie was first introduced as 'Barbara' in onscreen material we've seen.

[titan1978]

Thanks for posting that, it was nice to read it again. I have seen all of 1978 that is on YouTube, and Jackie really brings so much to Bobbie. It’s fascinating to watch her and Genie go at it. It’s visceral at times. Both of them were given complex characters to play. It would be easy to hate Bobbie, but Jackie plays her so well that you root for her too. Maybe not to get Scotty away from Laura, or for her to push Laura too far and she ends up in jail. But you do want Bobbie to have her own victories.

It is really interesting to watch her in scenes back then. She is cynical and volatile quite often with Luke. Viscous with Laura, sultry and flirty with Scotty. And as a student nurse with Jessie and the hospital crew she is bubbly and excited and has a sense of joy in being good at nursing.

[Vee]

Yeah, I didn't realize til exploring it during COVID just how hard she went at Laura. She gave Sarah's Carly a run for her money. It was intense. I know we're blessed with plenty of it now but I'd give a lot to see more of that period, particularly the David Hamilton stuff.

[carolineg]

You know, I think you may have been the first person to tell me about the AJ/HIV projected story and it always stuck in my mind.  I often wonder how that story could have played out and it's a fascinating idea to me.

What we got with Stone/Robin was pretty perfect.  I always thought the show would get scared at the last minute and make Robin HIV negative.  I am glad Labine/Riche stuck to their original plot.

[titan1978]

I agree, they went the right direction. It took guts to even do any HIV story in that era. To go through with Robin the way they did was pretty incredible. But the sweetness of their love story is what truly made it tragic and beautiful. I know I still cannot watch certain scenes from that story without crying. Mac embracing Stone being one of them. And the meds did get better in real life shortly after, allowing for Robin to also live and thrive. But in 1995 the meds were just okay, and it wasn’t as manageable and undetected as it can be today.

I still feel like that story transcended the genre. It was unique, because of the nature of soaps we saw his decline happening little by little, every week until his death. No other AIDS story airing at the time had that level of authenticity.

Edited December 4, 2024 by titan1978

[Vee]

Never. And it's shameful we don't see stories like that on GH (about abortion rights, COVID, etc which I've rambled on about them needing to do before) today. I still remember watching live when Alan told Robin she had HIV. It floored me as a kid and it still did watching the episode again a few days ago.

I don't remember the Mac/Stone embrace - I'd love to see that episode.

[carolineg]

A lot of scenes in that story still make me cry to this day including almost all the episode @Vee posted.

In 1995, I don't think there was any believable way to keep Stone alive-not for more than a few years.  Michael Sutton did such an amazing job physically and emotionally transforming himself to make it believable and GH did a ton of research.   I always thought it was a shame he gave up acting.

It looked like a death sentence for Robin as well.  I was also going to note that meds got a serious upgrade just a few years later in my original post and GH did talk through that topic with Robin quite well.  Even if that wasn't Labine or Riche's intention, Robin became a great symbol of hope instead of a tragic heroine.

I just don't think any current soap on air would even take that risk today.

 

I was floored too as a kid especially since Robin had previously tested negative.  I remember there was some debate about Robin telling Stone since he was so ill and Robin said they never lied to one another before so she couldn't now.  Such a touching romance.

[Dion]

I remember how shocking it was when the summaries from depboy revealed that Polly Prentice's 1969 car accident death occurred whilst she was being rushed to General Hospital following on a DIY abortion. And while that story was likely more about punishing a "bad" character rather than any meaningful debate on abortion rights, GH wouldn't even dare touch it today. Lulu's abortion in 2006 was also told quite well I think.

I do wonder how much they were aware about Mark Fowler over on EastEnders at that point. By the time Robin was diagnosed, he'd been HIV+ for 4 years (and like Robin had even lost his own love to AIDS). Not that I'm saying they copied or anything but rather they may have had a look and thought "well he's still a viable character so Robin could still be too."

I also remember the episode where she and Jason talked about her going on new medications.

Yeah, I think back then testing was at the stage where if it wasn't picked up in the first test you were still advised that it could be up to a year after exposure before you could be truly considered negative, so Robin testing positive at first and then later testing positive was realistic.

 

[DRW50]

Less than a decade later, EE would kill Mark off because they felt it was not "realistic" that he was still alive. I'm glad GH didn't do that with Robin, although I know that may have been a plan in the early '10s.

The show truly did take a huge risk at the time, especially with their ratings struggles. I remember someone writing a letter in SPW saying Robin could be cured via a crystal and Casey the alien. 

[Vee]

Which I hated and still do. But it was typical EE.

IIRC the idea of Robin dying of possible AIDS complications was in part because Kimberly found the Lisa Niles story in 2011 distasteful (where I think Lisa threatened people with a syringe of Robin's blood) and had therefore decided to leave and pursue her directing career. I don't remember if it was definitely supposed to be HIV-related illnesses or a version of the explosion idea or a car accident or something else that killed her instead of the illness she began to display - I've heard different versions - but I believe she was supposed to be very much dead-dead.

I was disgusted by the news and fortunately so was Frank Valentini when he arrived. He allegedly declared that Robin Scorpio would not die on his watch at General Hospital. He was right to do it, and to create the whole phantom explosion angle and subsequent fake death arc, even if it got very silly at times over the next year. It helped re-power the show and save it from the axe.

Edited December 4, 2024 by Vee