Up to August 27th, 1992.

🌹

"I love you."

"Do you?" 

I don't know where to begin.  So much to talk about. And cry about. 

💙

Leanne and Jason's world changed in 3 days. 3 days ago they were happy, in love, engaged, they had everything they ever wanted or dreamed of. But just like that, life can suddenly change on a dime. The shocking decision that left Demerest in Kevin's custody triggered a chain of unfortunate events. Now I'm starting to feel torn, because on one hand I dislike Leanne immensely. On the other - seeing both of them struggle like this - sleeping on a park bench and not having money to eat, makes me feel empathy. Leanne is not an evil person, but she is irresponsible and stupid. That is often times WORSE than being evil. Her child is once again put in shockingly dangerous conditions - outside in the cold... in a public park where anything can happen to him. This woman can't be a mother to anyone in this point of her life. In the future, maybe... but not now.

💙

The homophobia storyline is close to culmination. The AIDS quilt has just arrived and the town of Llanview is adjusting to the news. Some people are supporting the idea, but the majority are incredibly triggered. The hateful conservative mob is planning to get "rid of" Andrew... any way they can. Even Luna Moody's radio show got a wave of harassment after he visited to announce the quilt. At the end of the episode... I witnessed the disturbing, blood-chilling moment when the reverend was attacked and beaten by a raging homophobe. The Bible fell on the grass and the wind started flipping the pages. My heart sank... and I started sobbing. I am deliberately not going to go into more detail or upload a clip from this moment, because it's incredibly triggering. Still... this is so bold of the show to go into this kind of territory that even primetime rarely visits. OLTL is close to creating a true masterpiece.  A very dark and somewhat disturbing masterpiece, but still a masterpiece. A mirror to society.

HATS OFF to production and the writers.

💙

The tension between Clint and Victoria escalated to a point where Clint made an ultimatum. Victoria either packs her bags and goes away on a trip with him or she stays and picks Sloan and his family. After a night of clashes and fights... and a cold and distant morning, Victoria made a decision - she was not going to desert the Carpenters. Just as she way saying goodbye to Clint, she told him "I love you" to which he replied "Do you?". We were left feeling uncertain if the marriage is even in one piece at this point. Later in the day Victoria once again met with Sloan. This time though, they had hidden audience - Kevin was eavesdropping. This is going to get really ugly.

💙

Blair made her decision. She picked money and power and to hell with love! Asa's offer to open a new company in her name and make her a CEO of a brand new jewelry business... was enough to change her mind. Not before she saw Max in the jacuzzi with Luna - that was the last straw. Later in the evening... Blair was looking at herself in the mirror and the message was very clear - she was changing and she didn't know what into. 

Overall - TEN OUT OF TEN! No question about it. Perfect balance of drama and suspense.

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 

Clip of the day

Clint vs Victoria - the slow and painful unraveling of a marriage.

P.S - Clint's homophobia is now completely out in the open. It's no longer hinted or vaguely stated. He is calling Billy - some SICK kid.

Edited September 13Sep 13 by Maxim

2 hours ago, Maxim said:

I love it too. So sad that I can't find the masters anywhere on youtube. Some of them I can, but not all. The show has the best background music ever. I especially adore Alex Olanov's theme, but can't find the source. The more dramatic piece, not the comedy-mob one. The one when she was trying to drown Cassie, that still persists to this day. Sometimes this tune will come and visit my mind while I'm doing chores and every day stuff. 

Maybe Linda Gottlieb took the music with her when she left OLTL - as she has a background in music scoring thru her work on feature films, and she was determined to bring that work on OLTL, completely changing the way the show was being scored. 

Judith Light's essay in the New York Times, September 12, 2017, about leaving OLTL.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171104034232/https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/arts/television/judith-light-the-first-time-i-quit-a-big-job.html

(apologies if this was already posted in this thread)

A few more idle Gottlieb/Malone '91 thoughts - way too many more to come.

• Megan and Andrew's banter and chemistry is great in the first November '91 ep at the Hallowen fair. I do wonder what would've happened there if Gottlieb had managed to convince Jessica Tuck to re-sign, as Joe Lando was making major primetime moves (and would film the Doctor Quinn pilot in early '92 IIRC, though I seem to recall it did not go to series for another year). The fact that Andrew has basically been slotted in right where Heinrich/Cain left off as a romantic spoiler/rival for Jake with the two men one week apart onscreen, with a much more genuine friendship/rapport and less smoldering sexual heat than Megan and Cain, doesn't really feel out of place or jarring. It helps that Andrew's first scenes on the show in September were with Megan and that it was established that she and others in town had already met him offscreen.
• The famous/infamous Llanfair fire is here, allowing Gottlieb to demolish the old foyer set that has been there forever (and always looked too small to me, in addition to my being half-convinced it is in fact the Old House from ABC's Dark Shadows). I know there were articles about this setpiece at the time and I would love to read them if anyone has 'em - that fire looks very, very close to Yasmine Bleeth and occasionally Erin Torpey, and a bit too big and close for comfort. There's some remarkable camerawork here, including a wild low to the ground handheld/tracking shot with Jessica's little dog racing through the hall a la the boy on the Big Wheel in The Shining. I cannot remember a time I saw camerawork like that on a soap before or since - not sure how they pulled it off on those sets.
• I was pleased to hear Dorian mention Melinda during Cassie's utterly hogwild 'breakdown' at the Halloween fair, seemingly the first confirmation that Melinda had once again succumbed to mental illness since the Sharon Gabet days. I wonder if they'll unpack that more. Initially when they brought up the Cramer family mental illness I thought they were openly hinting at Addie, but no, they're using the known sister first. Poor Laura Bonarrigo is once again not doing herself any favors with this absolutely hysterical meltdown, even if it is deliberately OTT for not-crazy-but-maybe-a-little-crazy Cassie. It's making Cynthia Watros look a bit low-key. But I know how talented LB is - I blame them wanting her to just keep going bigger here. I hope it ends soon!

Edited September 13Sep 13 by Vee

It's so infuriating to think about just how much excellent work Gottlieb put out and the show was never nominated while others consistently got nominated for subpar material. I remember the show got criticism for the AIDS quilt storyline. Marlena de LaCroix (of the current BTG debacle) was particularly harsh. They always found something to attack the show with. You would have thought Gottlieb had borrowed money from these writers and not paid them back. The attacks got so personal at times.

Thanks again @Maxim 

That clip hones in on why the homophobia angle with Clint was such a mistake in the way it was executed, in my opinion. You have a very natural reason for him to be resentful of Sloan and jealous of the Carpenters' influence on Viki. The Billy hate on top just seems distracting, and Clint Richie's heart doesn't seem in it. There was a way to frame the story as Clint resenting both Joey and Viki being "taken" from him by outsiders, but that isn't what we are getting here. 

@Vee great insights as always. 

I did not realize there was so small a gap between Cain and Andrew. I do wish Jessica had stayed, even another six months, but maybe it's for the best. I wonder if the show may have tried an Andrew/Megan/Cain/Tina quad. I suppose Megan and Cain could have been like a sexier version of Megan and Marco. 

A long time ago I do remember seeing an SOD or SPW spread on the fire. I can't remember if I ever posted it or not.

1 minute ago, DRW50 said:

I did not realize there was so small a gap between Cain and Andrew. I do wish Jessica had stayed, even another six months, but maybe it's for the best. I wonder if the show may have tried an Andrew/Megan/Cain/Tina quad. I suppose Megan and Cain could have been like a sexier version of Megan and Marco. 

They did actually overlap the whole time; it's just that their respective relationships with Megan were pretty much spaced out. Andrew debuts in late September and has recurring counselor scenes with various people for the next month (after his first with Megan), and Megan has already met "Heinrich Kaiser" then either just before or just after and is preoccupied with him until late October. Then they reintroduce the Andrew/Megan connection almost immediately after "Heinrich" is exposed and flees the scene, just in time for Halloween. At this point no one knows who Cain is or has said his name, though I think they've already begun threading in a bit of backstory for him re: his family if I am not mistaken. It's just an odd little bit of storytelling traffic. The lupus story is clearly happening, has been layered in since August, and from here the Andrew/Megan angle goes full steam ahead.

I do wonder if Cain was initially someone they intended for JT or KW, or if they were just still winging it all the way at this point. IIRC Gottlieb has said she hired interesting faces and then let time determine who to put them with, like Mark Brettschneider. That certainly comes across with them experimenting with Jason with Stephanie, Lee Ann and Dorian across his first several months, or with Luna and Jon Russell. I'm very curious how the early stuff with Luna, Blair and Max will unfold, as I know Blair was aimed at Cord first, JL quit and I don't think Blair and Max even meet until two months from now (NYE).

11 hours ago, janea4old said:

Judith Light's essay in the New York Times, September 12, 2017, about leaving OLTL.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171104034232/https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/arts/television/judith-light-the-first-time-i-quit-a-big-job.html

(apologies if this was already posted in this thread)

I had never read this great article before, so thank you very much.

I loved it.

8 hours ago, chrisml said:

It's so infuriating to think about just how much excellent work Gottlieb put out and the show was never nominated while others consistently got nominated for subpar material. I remember the show got criticism for the AIDS quilt storyline. Marlena de LaCroix (of the current BTG debacle) was particularly harsh. They always found something to attack the show with. You would have thought Gottlieb had borrowed money from these writers and not paid them back. The attacks got so personal at times.

Ahhh, sadly, the list of deserving-but-overlooked shows and performers who were never nominated is endless, while we all can name names of mediocre winners in various Emmy categories.

It is, indeed, infuriating.

After 50 years of this, it is not going to be remedied any time soon, alas.

I didn't know they were not nominated for this storyline and this is laughable to me. I've seen soaps win for stupid generic storylines through the years... But this didn't get nominated? They were so ahead of time.

And yeah some of the elements of the storyline are a bit corny and preachy, but you can't escape that when the main character is a reverend. Other than that it's incredibly meaningful, bold and politically relevant. 

 

 

Edited September 14Sep 14 by Maxim

9 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks again @Maxim 

That clip hones in on why the homophobia angle with Clint was such a mistake in the way it was executed, in my opinion. You have a very natural reason for him to be resentful of Sloan and jealous of the Carpenters' influence on Viki. The Billy hate on top just seems distracting, and Clint Richie's heart doesn't seem in it. There was a way to frame the story as Clint resenting both Joey and Viki being "taken" from him by outsiders, but that isn't what we are getting here. 

 

I agree that it was not needed to pile that on him. It could have worked perfectly without making him a blatant homophobe. The jealousy and the corroding trust was enough to drive them apart. But it seemed like the writers wanted something really nasty to add on, so we won't be blaming Victoria as much if she does give in to temptation. 

Up to August 31st, 1992.

"There is no fear in love."

🔷

Today's commentary will be brief. The climax of the homophobia storyline has left me emotionally shattered. It forced me to face memories of my own childhood that I had locked... deep inside. Therefore, discussing this is extremely hard for me. Having been raised in a country that is still very hostile towards the LGBTQ+ community... all of this hit me to my core.

 🔷

The AIDS Quilt Memorial stands as a powerful reminder that "soap operas" are not only junk food entertainment for bored housewives fantasizing about forbidden romances while cleaning the dishes. It opened my eyes to the potential significance this genre could hold AGAIN if its creators approached it with seriousness and sincerity. This is precisely what Gottlieb, Malone, and their team accomplished here. They executed the storyline in an incredibly groundbreaking way, opening the door for others to tell similar stories. Yes, it was not perfect, and some moments didn't land as well as others, but the attempt was all that mattered. The amount of symbols and metaphors hidden in the characters was breathtaking. We had Andrew, a Christ-like figure - a man full of compassion, love and forgiveness. We had the entire town mob that... in the end almost merged into a single evil entity - representing the darkness, the Devil lurking nearby, manipulating people through fear. The bold social commentary, the shocking use of homophobic slurs and horrific images of hate crime violence rarely heard or seen in soap operas... felt like a slap, a wake-up call to those who choose to ignore this reality. The reality that we, as gay people, face daily. And last, but not least... the character of Billy IMO was always intended to symbolize hope and the possibility of light breaking through if given the opportunity. We lost William Carpenter... but there is still a chance to save Billy. We also had characters like Cassie and Victoria, who were symbols of change and new ways of thinking. The new ways that condemn hate and violence. The new paths. 

🔷

I could talk endlessly about the last 2-3 episodes, you could give me 3 days and 3 nights and I'll still be talking. And it still won't be enough. Every soap opera fan should experience this period of the show, I genuinely believe this. The image of the fallen Bible with its pages flipping will stay with me forever, as will the moment when Sloan traveled back in time to face the roots of hatred and homophobia - 'fear... and shame.' This is where soap operas meet Dostoevsky.  To finish this off - I'm grateful to have experienced it, yet I know I could never watch it again. Not soon at least. The sheer amount of tears... is simply too much for me to endure again. For that reason, I am thankful that this storyline seems to be over. I feel the need to finally breathe freely again and I also need more time to process all the emotions and the catharsis I went through. 

 🔷

The only two different storylines that the show was balancing through the Quilt showcase... were Leanne and Jason continuing their journey to nowhere... and Victoria and Sloan's emerging emotional (for now) affair. I will deliberately not upload scenes from the Quilt, because it's unfair to clip and cut anything from it. It should be seen in its entirety and 2 minutes will just seem out of context. 

 🔷

I have decided to talk and focus more about Sloan and Victoria finally giving in to temptation. While I was crying from one scene... to another...  I gasped when Victoria FINALLY admitted her feelings for Sloan and exclaimed "YES." This single affirmative word may cost her... her entire family. By the end of the day... Sloan returned to his apartment transformed - a father who had just reconnected with both his sons. And in that precious moment, he felt immense gratitude towards the woman that made this transformation possible, the woman who stood by him, always there to open his eyes and encourage him to change. Victoria. The kiss that had been building for MONTHS... affected Viki so profoundly that she nearly became physically ill. I plan to edit these scenes into a video-collage, as they are truly remarkable. Erika Slezak has given us material that I can only equal to Meryl Streep's performance in Bridges of Madison.  

 Overall - 100/10. 

⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ 

Clip of the day

Victoria and Sloan kiss.

10 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Ahhh, sadly, the list of deserving-but-overlooked shows and performers who were never nominated is endless, while we all can name names of mediocre winners in various Emmy categories.

It is, indeed, infuriating.

After 50 years of this, it is not going to be remedied any time soon, alas.

I gave up on soap watching and the Emmys a while ago, but yeah, the list is long of overlooked shows/performers and undeserving nominees/winners. It just felt at the time that there was a real anger towards OLTL about this storyline and I never understood why. I would hope it's not homophobia, but I also wouldn't be surprised. So-called allies are often shown to be the furthest thing from an "ally." Also, there just always seems to be a major resistance to someone doing something different in the soap world. Hence, why they just rotate the same producers and writers. AMC won for the gay story with Ben which I thought was fine, but I think OLTL was bolder in the storytelling. AMC was the the voters' darling.

 

8 hours ago, Maxim said:

I didn't know they were not nominated for this storyline and this is laughable to me. I've seen soaps win for stupid generic storylines through the years... But this didn't get nominated? They were so ahead of time.

I think voters don't always watch the shows and just nominate the same shows and people.  If a storyline gets a lot of attention, they might nominate the performers, but the daytime emmys tended to just stick with the same people and shows even when the shows or performers didn't have the material. It appears to be worse now at the primetime Emmys where two or three shows will dominate all the categories. 

3 hours ago, chrisml said:

It just felt at the time that there was a real anger towards OLTL about this storyline and I never understood why. I would hope it's not homophobia, but I also wouldn't be surprised. 

I think it was just about Gottlieb and how her attitude turned the industry off, really.

27 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think it was just about Gottlieb and how her attitude turned the industry off, really.

The show then got a slew of Emmy nominations, and some wins, a few years later, I suppose once they felt she had gotten the message or learned her place.