Spyder Games, in the weeks leading up to 9/11 got a 1.9 Household Average. For a cable series of any kind, even in 2001, those are fairly decent numbers.

But it also had the worst acting ever too.

I guess we just kind of reiterated what you said in your original post about jumping the gun and being incapable of embracing change.

For the record, I tuned in to a few episodes of GL becuase of all the hoopla about the production model and it didn't bother me all that much. It reminded me of some British TV I've seen. OTOH, the AMC steadicam experiment was difficult to watch not because it was a change but because it was hard on my eyes. I couldn't even stand that level of shakiness on Friday Night Lights and I was willing to walk through fire for FNL.

But cost cutting doesn't just apply to sets and lighting. It shows in Valentini's famous one take method which I think makes for crappy acting, or more accurately, doesn't allow for better acting. It shows in bad writing where overworked, underpaid, burnt out writers (or writers who couldn't get jobs anywhere else) crank out scripts like so many Beefy Crunch Burritos at Taco Bell. There's no thought, depth, or research because that takes time and time is money. The first draft is the only draft.

Change is fine but not when its just a different version of bad quality.

I guess I keep thinking back to the early soap days, which are dated and amateurish on some level, but still have some strong acting and tight writing, even with people basically acting in front of curtains.

I keep wishing they'd try a few fifteen minute soaps, on a small budget, with the actors having enough rehearsal time or experience to roll with the punches. I think that today this might be more likely to go over because reality stuff, Internet videos and homemade porn and so on have made a lot more people accept cheaper production.

Edited March 7, 201114 yr by CarlD2

I'm sad MyNetworkTV telenovelas are gone. I know many here hated them or if not that, never really took a look, but I keep wondering what would've happened if they were really allowed to grow and develop. Richard Andreoli, a writer on Fashion House and American Heiress, wrote about the last days of AH and how the executives and the rest screwed up the whole thing the writers plotted. It was awful.

Edited March 7, 201114 yr by Sylph

I must protest. That was no Ramada Inn I'm familiar with. I think they killed the Black Dahlia in that room.

GL's final years in Peapack were beyond embarrassing. I'm all for new types of filming, new modes of visualization, and I champion the faux-exteriors on Eastenders but there is absolutely no justification for what GL was putting out. For God's sake, it was clearly the producer's office doubling for both Reva's house and a church. And it looked like an office. My summer camp film productions at age 8 had slightly better production values than GL.

Vee, I am still obsessed with your Wreck Center post about Reva/Lizzie and the snuff film. Seriously one of the most brilliant things online. I go back and read it and cackle once or twice a year.

Y does anybody care about what gameshow host thinks???????????

Y does anybody care about what gameshow host thinks???????????

Because that "game show host" has gotten rich by satisfying the audience soaps have been bleeding for years.

Because that "game show host" has gotten rich by satisfying the audience soaps have been bleeding for years.

In a lot of ways Survivor has followed the same path as soaps in putting their preferences above viewer opinions (Russell over and over) and in the degradation/marginalization of women. But Survivor has managed to keep more loyal viewers than soaps.

But it also had the worst acting ever too.

Hush! Shawn Batten owned that shet.

I'm said MyNetworkTV telenovelas are gone. I know many here hated them or if not that, never really took a look, but I keep wondering what would've happened if they were really allowed to grow and develop. Richard Andreoli, a writer on Fashion House and American Heiress, wrote about the last days of AH and how the executives and the rest screwed up the whole thing the writers plotted. It was awful.

Well alot of people here kind of pooh-poohed them, and I guess that goes back to R Sinclair's "Incapable of accepting change."

My favorite, of all of them, was Wicked Wicked Games. Do I even have to say her name? It'd be like putting that broken record on again.

I'll admit I never really gave the MyNet telenovelas a real chance. I had absolutely nothing against the format AT ALL (except for them conflicting with other shows I was watching, which is what I think ultimately did them in -- putting them up against established network shows), I just got tired of waiting and waiting and waiting for Morgan Fairchild to show up on Fashion House. I tuned out and never tuned back in.

Now that they're gone, I really regret not watching them, though. I bet they'd be great for some bitchy, soapy Saturday afternoon thunderstorm viewing.

Edited March 7, 201114 yr by All My Shadows

I'll admit I never really gave the MyNet telenovelas a real chance. I had absolutely nothing against the format AT ALL (except for them conflicting with other shows I was watching, which is what I think ultimately did them in -- putting them up against established network shows), I just got tired of waiting and waiting and waiting for Morgan Fairchild to show up on Fashion House. I tuned out and never tuned back in.

So you missed Wicked Wicked Games?

Well alot of people here kind of pooh-poohed them, and I guess that goes back to R Sinclair's "Incapable of accepting change."

My favorite, of all of them, was Wicked Wicked Games. Do I even have to say her name? It'd be like putting that broken record on again.

They were doomed to fail because people were expecting a French soup to cook itself out of vegetables added in salty water. The writers were wrong, the actors were wrong, in many ways it was just a bad cartoonish caricature of a soap. They should've invested more. And the way they ducked out was more than telling. If you don't take it seriously, your audience won't either.

I'll admit I never really gave the MyNet telenovelas a real chance. I had absolutely nothing against the format AT ALL (except for them conflicting with other shows I was watching, which is what I think ultimately did them in -- putting them up against established network shows), I just got tired of waiting and waiting and waiting for Morgan Fairchild to show up on Fashion House. I tuned out and never tuned back in.

Now that they're gone, I really regret not watching them, though. I bet they'd be great for some bitchy, soapy Saturday afternoon thunderstorm viewing.

Bellcurve has had a lot of ideas on why they failed, but I'm not sure he ever put them down on 'paper'. He just said he had a theory.

So you missed Wicked Wicked Games?

I'm sorry, boo That was actually the one I was most looking forward to (besides FH, but that was only for Morgan), the whole idea of the bitchy mom raising her sons to be bastards was very appealing. Desire was such a turn-off for the whole franchise, though...just...ugh. It was riduclous.