Where Has Character Connection Gone On Daytime?

[Ann]

Actually, soaps have gotten shorter because of more commercials. I heard one time how long an actual show is, something like 40 minutes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's about twenty minutes of commercials. So, it would be harder to have long scenes as opposed to shorter

ones because a soap is often saturated with too many stories going on.

[Gray Bunny]

Soaps have gotten shorter and shorter, just as primetime has gotten shorter. Back in the day when I'd tape and save soap episodes, they'd run just under 40 minutes with all commercial breaks edited out. These days, it's between 35-37 minutes. Same with primetime. I don't know the exact minutes, but Desperate Housewives is a lil over 40 minutes, whereas Dynasty episodes from the 80's where a good 46-47 minutes.

And P.S., even the melodramatic, campy, and musical essence of Dynasty is deemed too boring by my boyfriend. He's a reality-TV whore.

[DRW50]

Soaps that ran for only 15 minutes still had longer and more strong scenes than a lot of soaps today. I think the time is still there if the effort is made.

I don't know if that means short attention span. I love parts of Dynasty but parts are boring as hell, especially if the scene involves Krystle.

[Gray Bunny]

Aw, I like my Krystle, if nothing else than to enjoy her sun-damaged skin and football player shoulders.

[RomeAt50]

They probably could manage to do some longer scenes than they do now. You don't need a 10 minute scene every episode but sometimes it feels like some scenes are rushed.I don't find the older soap epidodes that I have watched boring and I'm pretty young and I don't think my attention span is especially long.

I think your typical primetime drama episode is around around 40-44 minutes.

[Gray Bunny]

I think One Life to Live is the most guilty of the soaps. In one episode, they can have multiple scenes that are literally a couple seconds long. Although sometimes they'll cut back to the short scene.

[DeeeDee]

+1.

[EricMontreal22]

This seems to be OLTL's style--I'm not even sure when it started, but it's been a while... Often they break up scenes into short 30 second bits and, as you say, in the same "act" between commercials will cut back and forth between two scenes that way. Which sometime is very effective, but I feel OLTL does it too much. AMC (the only other soap I watch) every so often will have a full on scene for an emotional moments--some that even last a whole "act"--and they almost always are very effective--I wish they'd be less afraid to do them. I guess the thought is if viewers are bored of one story or set of characters they won't flip away?

[EricMontreal22]

Dynasty is actually fairly slow by modern standards though--it does have long scenes, longer than even Primetime would have now (especially primetime?) excepting some cable shows I can think of (I used to love Six Feet Under partly because it had a more theatrical pace to its scenes--mostly).

Yeah I believe daytime programming now is just over 36 mins of programs, the rest is commercials (so a 30 min soap would only be 18 or so mins. It's been that way since the 90s or so (in Canada legally they aren't allowed ot have that many commercials in the daytime, so they fill at least one commercial block with PSAs, or little news bits, etrc, that don't air in the US broadcasts).

Primetime currently is just under 41 and a half mins. Still really not that much (one reason it can be so much better to watch recorded or downloaded programming--I can watch both the soaps I record, AMC and OLTL, when I get home in just over an hour, instead of two...) It must be so much more rewarding to write for cable (for many reasons, but...) cuz usually you're not stuck to an EXACT time frame (not to mention number of commercials)--I know HBO shows can fluctuate, depending on how much material they have for that episode from 40 to sometimes just over 60 mins...

I'm not sure when the laws changed, but I know the hour dramas from the early 80s (Knots Landing, etc) are just over 45 mins without commercials.

[EricMontreal22]

It also isn't a sudden thing--it's been a slow but steady progression really from Monty's General Hospital (as well as some other late 70s shows)--and has been happening in film and primetime tv as well. There is a valid argument to be made I think that viewers now ARE more used to shorter scenes--my friends who find it difficult to watch my fave older movies often get a bit restless with long scenes although if they make a tiny bit of effort, and it's good material and acting and directing, then they adjust quickly. That said, I do agree that the extreme lack of longer scenes is due to the execs not having faith in keeping viewer interest--but it is a complex issue (in a way lol).

When McTavish returned to AMC in 2003 one thing I did love was at least for a while we got a number of long dramatic scenes--that could fill a full act. Soap writing is IMHO, when it's well done, very much like theatrical writing (since soaps depend on dialogue, only a handful of sets, etc, to tell their stories like most traditional theatre--unlike movies and primetime which often use action and visuals to tell their stories). And to really have a scene that has a real arc you NEED longer scenes for those pivotal moments. (Think fo that classic, oft shown scene of Kay Chancelor breaking down when her husband leaves her on Y&R from the 70s--and imagien it chopped into short 90 second scenes instead).

This was one scene that actually took place in the first week of McTavish's run (for all her faults, the first while she did seem to want to make an impact to show the show would be different under her). 9 (!) full minutes, which allowed both the script writers, and Finola Hughes and Vincent Irizarry to really show off their chops. I'm certain for both actors (at least the really talented ones, not models hired to act) and script writers find this kind of material much more satisfying to write. It's funny my mom still mentions how much she liked this scene--and you have a clear dramatic arc in the scene. You go from point a to c fully exploring point b--too often a scene like this would now have point a, then switch to another scene or commercial, and we'd come back at point c.

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[DRW50]

I think Megan did the same - although it wasn't 9 minutes - when she had Opal talk about her affair with Adrian's father and having to leave him behind. Those scenes seemed fairly long.

Having longer scenes means more power and more time for viewers to be drawn in. I have never believed the public are as stupid as the conglomerates believe they are. They want us to be stupid. That makes it easier for them. Considering how much the big companies get away, no wonder the soap producers thought they could do the same and viewers would put up with it. Apparently not. Soaps were built on this type of thing. Even watching the old stuff from the 50s, it can hook you.

This is a long set of scenes Doug Marland wrote at GL right after the writers strike ended.

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[DRW50]

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[Paul Raven]

I think a mixture of shorter and longer scenes is the way to go. Those extra long scenes were a legacy from the early days of live soaps,where they were unable to move more quickly between scenes/sets. That meant many scenes were a certain length for the sake of it and didn't warrant the time taken.Not every conversation in real life takes 5 minutes.

Some scenes need to be longer and I wish soaps would go with that. Viewers should be willing and anticipating these scenes as that is what the emotional connection of soaps is all about.

Soaps are in trouble because they turned away from the very elements that made them unique in the first place.

[EricMontreal22]

Carl--great clips, I'll look through them. Yeah in her 2003 era there were a number--I remember one with Bianca at the clinic post rape.

Paul I absolutely agree longer and shorter is the way to go--ideally content dictates form, and some short scenes can be very effective, and it helps shake up the pacing if not everything is the same. My problem with OLTL's fragmented scenes (and I think that overall this style DOES, for better or worse, suit the current incarnation of OLTL I just wish it was a bit less constant), is then the writers feel the need to have super mini "cliffhangars" at the end of EVERY 30 second scene, which robs them of some of the power if every bit of dialogue is leading to a mini pseudo revelation, etc.

[EricMontreal22]

Yep, as a teen I was riveted by that set of GL radio eps (50 or more) from 1951 or so--and they mainly consisted of one, maybe two, conversations (prob about 11 mins, the rest being advertisements, etc).

And no, while there are always examples of p[eople flocking or watching crap, for the most part I think it's been proven over and over that quality wins out in terms of what eally hooks people, particularly in the longe term, and soaps need to build and sustain longterm audiences (which is a huge prob with the current mentality of execs--brief spikes cuz of an outlandish plot twist do [!@#$%^&*] all for keeping a soap steadily watched).

Word.