Jump to content

Downton Abbey: Discussion Thread


Sylph

Recommended Posts

  • Members

I watched a bit of this and saw very little complexity - it was an easy, sort of Cliff Notes thing of that era, complete with the predictable writing choices (they always have the woman who is too outspoken and ahead of her time and such -- it's a shame ITV doesn't bother to have strong women on their soaps anymore). I don't buy that it would be too complex for American audiences. It's a shame because I was going to tell some people about this who normally wouldn't see it otherwise but now I won't bother. As there is little to bother with on PBS now anyway.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 180
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Members

I had never heard of this but am now quite interested. It's too bad I won't even give it a chance knowing that it's been so cut! Maybe I will and if I love it I'll seek out the original cut to compare and contrast, but this is really annoying and insulting and I'm sad that PBS feels the need to stoop (I think this is less about us not understanding, and more about their fear that we'll turn the channel when things aren't immediately rolling). Laura Linney (see: overrated) coming out to give us Period Drama for Dummies reminds me of Susan Flannery giving the B&B backstory in foreign markets.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To be fair it does get much more complex as it goes on--and the stuff about the inheritance needs some explanation (but as the blog mentions the Brits watching would need explanation too for the most part). And if youw atch the show they offer enough explanation in the dialogue, cleverly done. But yes, as far as costume dramas go, or even typical Masterpiece Theatre stuff goes it is NOT complex. And even that tiny amount of complexity is the kind of stuff PBS audiences congratulate themselves for watching, and enjoy! It's like shooting themselves in the foot--I don't see them going out of their way to sell this to non typical PBS/costume drama viewers, so why bother??? So they're insulting and putting off some of the audience they would get (though the edits haven't been too well publicized and it has been getting good reviews) and IMHO won't gain any new viewers by doing this. Truly dumb. (And as Ent Weekly said in their positive review of the show, besides their increasingly rare British imports on Masterpiece or Mystery--now of course combined into the same show so not even on biweekly--there's next to nothing of excitement or interest to watch on PBS anyway--even the children's block is of more interest, and that's nothing like it used to be either).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

That's really interesting then. It's like, why are people making shows that need such explanation before viewing? :lol: Perhaps the writers took their own knowledge for granted and realized some of their audience was lost upon the intial viewings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

SFK, I shoulda never said it was cut. :P It *really* is good--full of expert soapy plot points (evil servant causes a miscarriage! secret gay scandals!) but of course "classed up" (which reminds me of 1970s soap books claiming almost depserately, albeit quite rightly, that Upstairs Downstairs was just dressed up well done soap opera yuet got critics to consider it art). I can't wait for next season--but I'm glad I watched the ITV downloads (and it is easy to find online...)

And that's exactly my point, you do NOT need prior knowledge--PBS has too little faith. I didn't know about the terms of ancestry and inheritance at the time, but soon did thanks to the show.

Laura Linney (who I love even if she is overated--she was the ONLY good thing about The Big C :P ) to be fair does that for EVERY Masterpiece Classic--I remember her givign some cliff notes when they did the great miniseries of Dickens' Little Dorritt last year that I found annoying--the blog doesn't mention that she is their host (liek Alistair used to be way back when Cookie Monster did his own version on Sesame Street :P ). But it's still ridiculous :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It prob will be out on DVD ina few months (it's out in the UK of course). It was 7 episodes in the UK--on iTV (Their successful attempt to compete with BBC exzpensive productions like the new, probably similar sequel to Upstairs Downstairs) so it has commercials, but from my memory of my downloaded files, without commercials the first episode was about 66 mins, with the others being 47 mins until ep 7 which was a full hour. (I never was good with math :P ). PBS has edited it to 4 episodes of just under 80 mins. (which means about 40-50 mins will be cut I guess...)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Masterpiece traditionally gets by without pledge breaks (the local Seattle PBS when they aired Sondheim's Birthday Concert put so many pledge breaks in that they actually "had" to edit out more numbers than any of the other PBS's did--though like most PBS concerts they all cut a few numbers to drive up DVD sales. Sigh). Of course PBS seems to be getting worse and worse so who knows...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I haven't heard--I think it JUST premiered this week in the UK? But I haven't heard any gossip. PBS is airing it in April and I was thinking I'd just wait and check it out then--I'm gonna hope it's unedited :P I did love the original series--I watched it all in the 90s when a new cable station here Women's Network premiered (like most specialty channels they started with great, interesting programming--they later carried the quirky UK soap Night and Day, etc--but now seem to only show SVU and Friends reruns...). But I admit it seems kinda too late to do a continuation of U/D, and in a way ITV has stolen their thunder. So we'll see... But it's only three episodes long (and if it's a hit will be a longer series next year) so prob worth checking out if you're a fan of Nico (who I really cannot picture right now in a period drama, lol).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Members

I am rewatching. This show is magnificence. Julian Fellowes knows how to write this sort of stuff.

Where do I begin? I'd love it if someone rewatched it too. It's a pity we haven't commented on a per episode basis.

Michelle Dockery is fabulous. A real revelation, indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

<span style="font-size:10.5pt;">Well, I sure had one big marathon. Faster than expected.

WHAT SUCKED

The accent. It was "not too progressive RP". Some words were pronounced a bit too correctly, others weren't pronounced right. The dowager countess and Isobel Crawley were perhaps the closest to the older model of speech. On the other side, the servants were too RP. I wonder why they didn't hire a dialogue coach, especially since money isn't a problem, it seems. And obviously RADA, Guildhall, Central... are doing something wrong.

A big fat truckload of cliches: "stalwart, anvil-faced mass of crinoline underskirts, default mode 'livid'", "prissy socialite needing to make a good marriage", "moneyed American who no one ever wholly accepts as posh", and of course "sexually repressed/terminally sad house staff", "poor souls who've eschewed a lifetime of fun in favour of laying out cufflinks and steam-ironing gussets". Every single storyline and plot point was so cliched, every single one, including the soap slip and the war announcement, the horse incident, I am utterly amazed at the sheer magnitude of it.

Pilfering. From Mrs Miniver and Little Women. The flower show and the salt incident, respectively.

"Semaphored plotting".

"Clunky dialogue" (at times).

What Carl calls a "evil gay cliche". Not because of it being a cliche, there was something else about Rob James-Collier that was wrong. How trivial it felt. I can't put my finger on it. Still, in its best moment it was delicious "evil pantomime".

Double yellow lines, aerials, an "anachronistic conservatory". Other inaccuracies (if you paid this much, you might as well gotten it right; furthermore, Julian Fellowes, known as a notorious snob, should have known better; obviously, no one cares – it made money, full stop).

Cora. I liked her in brief moments, then I didn't. It's a mixed bag.

Moments of unneeded sentimentality, done badly.

Amateurishly written politics issues.

The earl being Downton Abbey's Stephanie Forrester. Just like her, he just kept going around the place fixing problems. I just didn't get to know the person, his story. He was used as a tool, not written as an integral character.

Lady Edith Crawley.

John Bates. Lord Grantham's valet. I hate soppy, mawkish stories. Though, this one did have its moments.

WHAT WAS GOOD

Everything. It was just delicious and I can't wait for it to come back.

It being a "soap opera in starched collars".

The photography. All those violets, lush spring greens, the yellows, the grey colour of stones. It wasn't soaked in hideous darkness they way these things usually do get done. Set design. Costume design.

Maggie Smith. Maggie Smith/Violet Crawley, Dowager Countess of Grantham's lines. "What is a week-end?", "I must have said it wrong", "We can't have the ambassador assassinated... I suppose...", "So put that in your pipe and smoke it"...

Dowager Countess' fox fur pelts.

O'Brien's lines. The octopus one. Several others.

O'Brien. Until she moved the soap bar. Her cliched scheming with a gay fellow. All the while while smoking a cigarette (the villains always do — a cliche, again).

Lady Rosamond Painswick.

Michelle Dockery. Hugh Bonneville.

Jessica Brown-Findley. Phyllis Logan. Jim Carter (the phone!). Joanne Froggatt. Simply – the "upmarket acting talent". And their characters.

All in all, superrrb. It didn't, however, felt unbelievably gripping, engrossing, enthralling, something was lacking, or the amount of cliches killed that. It wasn't this amazing new thing, so new yet so familiar. But it was splendid. Mixed bag? Not really, although everything I just wrote says precisely that. More, please!</span>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

OMG a show me and Sylph agree on? And one we almost entirely agree on the good and bad as well? :lol::wub: The evil gay cliche didn't bug me--I guess I would have been more annoyed with a story about a nice, closeted gay character at this point in time. But the actor has said his character's past will play a part and give it more depth next season. (I'm guessing the Abbey might be partly turned into a war hospital as many of those big old houses were--and he could work there? Of course a big turn around would suck and be ridiculous).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Also I think, for good or bad, some of the cliches were there on purpose (like the villains always smoking--though it did give them a way to conspire away from others). Fellowes is too smart not to play into the genre and past similar series and works--although I know it could be said that's just making excuses for it, he obviously wanted it to be a popular mainstream piece--arguably more so than Gosford Park for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



  • Recent Posts

    • I loved Kelley Menighan! She was an MVP, especially during the show’s last few years. I always looked forward to anything she did with MM, BH, CZ, MW,  and the two grownup Alisons. Wasn’t a big fan of her with RH’s Paul. I always admired how she balanced being a vixen and being neurotic.
    • LLC can be a lot (lady definitely doesn’t phone it in), but her scenes with Rena made me wish they played actual sisters on a better platform.  Aside from JE, who is a legend so it’s no surprise when she’s excellent, Amanda Setton is my MVP of this story and she hasn’t always been great in this role. You see so much happening in her face as she’s navigating the shifts and layers of this story. She’s fully locked in. Glad Rory Gibson is getting his due on GH. I knew he had more to give than what Y&R was giving him. The writing will be a factor here as well because the character of Michael hasn’t been written well in ages (if ever, arguably). GH just can’t sustain the good stuff for more than a few weeks. Alexa Havins is a very good actress and was widely embraced as Lulu initially, but the character’s one-note abrasiveness has a lot of folks wishing she was gone at this point. 
    • It's pilots like "Hurricane Sam" and "Anything for Love" that makes me so afraid to write professionally, because, my God, what if I actually tried and came up with something just as awful, if not worse (if that's even possible)?
    • JANUARY 1974 SPECIALS ADDED... Here are the January 1974 specials which have been added to the yearly list on page 76:

      Please register in order to view this content

       
    • Wow, you have the patience of a saint watching through this period. I think the show does get better but it takes a while.  I won't give any spoilers about Zachary, but I will drop a slight hint: GL was probably trying to get a ratings boost by doing a story inspired by one of CBS's few primetime hits in the mid-1990s. And no, Zachary does not turn out to be a Texas ranger. 
    • Love makes everything possible.

      Please register in order to view this content

    • Please register in order to view this content

         
    • I like Pamela too. At risk of sounding like a "Pollyanna", story and actor wise, I love the show. The hour flies by.  My only true dislike is the way it's edited. The sudden drop offs to commercial needs to be worked on. 
    • I’m up to July 8, 1996. Aww, we just lost Ed Bauer in late June. He left to go on assignment in Africa. I don’t know if this was the actor’s decision or the show’s, but it’s sad to see a long-time vet go like this. Granted, he hasn’t really had a storyline in a year, since Eve died, but sad nonetheless that he won’t be floating around the hospital or reprimanding Michelle for dressing too provocatively. At least they held a nice going away party for him, with most of the cast there in attendance. It was a nice sendoff. Oh they also had the HIV/AIDS program coordinator from the hospital, who got to dance with Lucy. That was a nice homage and followup to the story from last year. There were some strong scenes between Rick and Michelle during the 4th of July, reminiscing about their past Bauer BBQs they had and how sad it is without Ed this year. Also with Michelle and Abby, where she told her about her grandma and their wonderful traditions. I do love Abby, she’s very sweet and way easier to watch outside of her Amish storyline. Rick is very kind to her and it really makes me like him. Ugh, what a sad day. Rick Hearst has left, unceremoniously. His last scene was at Ed’s going away party, and had nothing to do with him, sadly. Also, a new J just showed up. A much more handsome guy and a little more grown up, it feels. We’ll see how I like him. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a double voice-over in a row like this, where one scene ends with nuA-M showing up and making a statement, then voice over man says the “The role of A-M…” and then immediately a new scene with J starts and he back to back says “And the role of J…”. Wild! We’re losing so many actors and characters this year, again. Vivian has got to be the worst character right now for me. She is so weak. We’ve had so many repetitive scenes with Vivian and Holly, where Holly tells her to just tell the damn truth so everything can end, and she just whines about how she can’t do it. Meanwhile, she’s cheating on her husband, pissing off her daughter, and now she just told Charles that Griffin is hitting on her. Also, they just brought her into the Alan Spaulding and his Advantage Systems storyline, to bring down the 5th Street restoration, and it’s because the Grants made some bad investments so they wanted to make money. The writers are really driving this family into the ground, but especially Vivian. Prior to this, I rarely saw her, but when she popped in a few times, she always seemed like a fun, stylish yet snooty character who struggled over supporting David and his life decisions, but wow has she really been turned into a horribly weak person. Dahlia is now dressing up like a prostitute, while a high schooler (what??), and almost got raped (blah). Marcus saved her, but yeah, I’m not feeling this story anymore. And now they’re testing J with Dahlia and having them flirt a lot on the beach, which isn’t making Marcus happy. I can’t believe A-M announced on TV to all of Springfield the news about Amanda being the Malibu Madame. I know this was probably more of a scandal in the 90s, but today it seems sort of minor in the grand scheme of things haha. I was way more invested in this story in the beginning, when Matt was involved, but it finalized as a big dud. The “Save our Streets” 5th Street storyline is really, really boring after all these months. At this point, I don’t care who wins - Alan/Amanda or the town of Springfield. All the chanting is laughable and Alan screaming at Buzz/Reva every episode is tiring.  5th Street has been under construction and trying to be ‘saved’ for 18 months now, let’s move on. Vanessa has now passed out twice, curious to see what’s wrong with her and where this goes (finally something to showcase her!).  Also, this is where Zachary finally makes an appearance, to help an alone Vanessa come to. She doesn’t know him, but he knows her name and knows to call Matt. Someone else mentioned this, but I too feel like this was meant to be someone else at first - perhaps Marian (or my wishful thinking haha)? For a month or so, they never show his face, just a hand with a gold (very unisex, at least) bracelet. But then, not showing his face again, has an encounter with Phillip where his voice is very deep, and then again with Ed at Ed’s going away party. Based on their very short conversation, it almost seems like Ed sold him the lighthouse (we’ll see). But now he’s made an appearance in Lucy’s dream where we finally see his face, and then again now with Vanessa. He also showed face to Marah/Shayne and they recognized him, so curious to see who this person finally is and how people know of him or how he seems to know everyone. But, it was odd in the beginning - either he was supposed to be Marian, or they just didn’t have an actor cast yet. Oh and now the recent cliffhanger, Lucy is walking the beach alone, post-fight with A-M, and he’s there to say hello to her. He feels like a God-like being haha. He’s a very pretty, young man, maybe a little too young looking. I haven’t been spoiled at all on who this is and where his story goes, so it’s interesting and one of the few things keeping me going right now. Finally, the Hart/Dinah/Roger story is so draining and ridiculous. They think we’re going to root for Dinah and Hart, as they carry out this plan to make Roger go insane and become a couple in the process, but they’re really an unlikeable duo now. I used to really ‘love to hate’ Dinah, but now she’s just malicious and unlikeable. There was a really weird campy scene where Roger sees a shirtless man wearing this weird mask after he chugged the vial of Lanatrat. Now Roger is in the hospital and they keep allowing Hart to evade all cops and hospital staff, showing up to haunt Roger at every corner. Now they got Blake, Matt and Vanessa to go along with their plan in making him think he’s crazy. It’s just too much, but I will say Zaslow is giving a great performance with this ridiculous story. Oh, Quint did return home on an excavating assignment, post-breakup with his 20-something girlfriend. But they stuck him in this stupid story with Roger/Hart/Dinah, and the Native American grounds that he plans to dig up just happened to be exactly where Hart was “buried” LOL - so dumb. Annie is finally starting to take more pills and make things more interesting, which Phillip is catching onto. They keep having these two run into each other and are building a nice rapport. The only things keeping me going are the promise of Annie’s pill popping/downward spiral (since I know she’s not Josh’s endgame), Ross/Blake/Rick and the babies, Rick/Abby’s budding relationship, mystery Zachary, and maybe Michelle/J. Everything else is pretty bad and I’m looking forward to getting to the ends of their storylines.
    • Thanks for the tag @DRW50 as always!! This is an era of AMC I’ve read much about yet seen so little of. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy