As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Another 1986 episode is up! This one is more about developing stories, but it's still very watchable. The only parts I don't care for are everything with Shannon and the ring and her secret - just forced. I see this is still when they had her in dowdier clothes.

Lots of good moments with Lucinda trying to fit in at the Snyders, Lyla embarking on her singing career (Lisa's shoulder pads threw me but Lyla looks like a linebacker in a dress), Betsy struggling to define her life on her terms as Steve becomes more and more materialistic (you can also see hints of the Iva/Steve story they soon dropped), Tom still missing Barbara, Sierra's struggles for independence, etc. My favorite moment is when Emma and Lucinda marvel over their daughters Iva and Lily...

I was surprised at how much more I preferred Tonio here than I did when he was the smooth-talking sleaze. I like the contrast between this geeky, awkward man with glasses and checked sweaters and hesitant speech who then repeatedly tries to shame Sierra into being his property. It's much more interesting, and Peter Boynton also looks better.

[Paul Raven]

Edited July 1, 2011 by Paul Raven

[DRW50]

Grant sometimes reminds me of a vampire.

[Paul Raven]

[DRW50]

I was reading in a Daytime TV Stars about unpopular stories and ending them due to wanting to appease viewers, and they talked about ending the Bob/Kim/Jennifer saga and needing to "punish" Bob and Kim. I knew that they had killed the baby, but apparently they even had Bob hit by a car! I hadn't heard about that (or I had forgotten it). Wow.

[DRW50]

Thelma's first appearance. I always liked Thelma. Jenny O'Hara is such a great actress. She's fun here. Love when she says Jane thought she'd get along with Lucinda because they had both been married about the same amount of times!

Did Jane marry Ambrose?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS0osjkHhhk&feature=related

[DRW50]

The June 1992 episode that's up is solid from start to finish - even the Andy/Courtney stuff that always bored me. It's so tough to tell when John learned about Aaron but I guess he knew by this time. Does anyone know about what was going on with Susan Marie Snyder/Julie during 1991 and 1992? Based on story, she can't have appeared very often. Was she on recurring, or were they paying her for not appearing? And was Ben Hendrickson on a leave of absence and that's why Hal is gone for a lot of 1991 or 1992?

Did Frannie ever find out about Jennifer? I am not done with 1992 yet so I guess I'll find out...

Don't you think Scott and Margo have a lot of chemistry in this scene? I wonder if the show was thinking of going there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWX7VZ07LkQ&feature=related

[DRW50]

This episode was tough to find on Youtube. I found it while looking for Margo's rape. It takes place right after the masterful scenes with Frannie and Darryl in Switzerland.

Do you know who is playing Sean at this time and why they recast? He talks like Tonio. Strange casting choice.

[saynotoursoap]

Yes! I loved this era of As the World Turns. These things happened following the writer’s strike of 1973 when the Soderbergs came in to undo Irna Phillips’ damage. Previously I had mentioned how the serial would build a story ever so slowly. It would creep along like pouring treacle, then suddenly the narrative accelerated to a shocking finale. The Soderbergs were very adept at that form of storytelling.

Bob and Jennifer’s relationship had deteriorated badly by the spring of 1973. I had recounted in other posts here about Bob’s acrimonious relationship with Rick Ryan. Rick was a sort of younger version of John Dixon. He was brash, cocky, self-assured, and sometimes willing to take risks with patients. His style rubbed the super-conservative Bob the wrong way, and they clashed constantly at Memorial. John Dixon watched from the sidelines. This was the true beginning of John’s reign as World Turns’ villain.

John loathed Bob. John felt that his own skills as a healer were far superior to Bob’s, yet it was Dr. Robert Hughes who had the name, prestige, and respect of the community. John knew that it was because Chris and Nancy were paragons of polite Oakdale society. Bob was an average doctor, but he commanded respect because of his family’s social standing. John decided that if he could find a trophy wife who could give him entrance to society, with his superb skills as a physician he could go much farther than Bob Hughes ever dreamed. And John instantly recognized what he desired in Kim Reynolds.

Kim was beautiful, talented, and had the social breeding and class that gained her instant acceptance into Oakdale. John also noted the family dynamics between the Hughes family and sisters Kim and Jen. Recognizing animosity between Rick and Bob, John quickly aligned himself with Rick and subtly encouraged the younger doctor to rebel against his stepfather, which created additional tension in Bob and Jen’s precarious marriage. The Soderbergs created a situation in which Bob and Jen were torn between their opposing families. Bob was not fond of Jen’s kids, but Jen was not particularly thrilled with the Hughes clan either. Jennifer and Nancy often found themselves at odds over the concept of a modern marriage, with Nancy’s approach decidedly old-fashioned and consequently the “proper” way to run a household. Jen began to resent Nancy’s meddling and “helpful hints” about how to be a good wife. There was an episode in which Jen prepared a home cooked meal for Chris and Nancy, and Nancy complained that the soup was too salty, the roast not tender enough, and the vegetables overcooked. She gave Jen advice about how to cook these dishes properly, and later Jen and Bob had a terrible argument about Nancy’s constant belittling of Jen’s skills as a wife. The writers cleverly managed to punctuate these quarrels with Bob reminding Jen about her children’s shortcomings, which in turn implied that she was a failed mother as well as a wife.

All of this came to a head in the story I referred to earlier about Amy Hughes’ grandmother Mrs. Parsons, who had been treated by Rick. In that story, Bob had Rick suspended from Memorial because of his liberal approach to treating Mrs. Parsons. Jen was infuriated when Rick convinced her that he had tried to become friends with Bob, but Bob sabotaged him out of jealousy and spite because of Jennifer. Jen informed Bob that she would be leaving him while he attended a medical conference in Palm Beach. Meanwhile, Kim had grown quite fond of Bob, despite being pursued by John. Kim went down to Florida and checked into the Palm Colony hotel where Bob was staying, and the rest is history. Bob and Kim had dinner together and returned to his hotel suite to discuss his separation from Jen. With the drinks poured freely and soft lighting, Bob and Kim found themselves talking freely, openly, comfortably. Bob was drawn into the same magic that John saw in Kim, and they kissed as the scene faded to black and the organ music cued up.

By the time Bob returned to Oakdale, Jennifer had discovered that she was pregnant. She decided it would be unfair to keep father and child away from one another, and for the sake of the baby, she should give their marriage another shot. Despite this unstable foundation for reconciliation, Bob agreed to try again too, but he could not get Kim out of his mind. He and Kim talked obliquely about their meeting in Florida, about spending a pleasant evening in one another’s company, but they should allow it to be nothing more than a past memory. This was treated very subtly. The audience really did not know exactly what had occurred when the scene went black. However, Kim suddenly discovered that she was also pregnant, and no doubt was left regarding their encounter.

John had been pursuing Kim with a vengeance, yet she insisted that she was not involved with any man nor did she wish to be. One night she doubled over in excruciating pain. She feared that she was having a miscarriage, and since no one knew about her condition, she went to another hospital in Oakdale where she was diagnosed with appendicitis. In order to save her child, Kim refused to undergo an appendectomy, so the doctor treated her alternatively. Kim was forced to confide her pregnancy in Lisa, who at that time was her only real friend in Oakdale. Kim refused to name the child’s father, but everyone knew that Kim had seen John Dixon casually, and the he was pursuing marriage with her. Lisa promised not to tell anyone, but a short while later, Kim experienced a second attack of appendicitis which led to peritonitis. John rushed her to the same hospital where she had been treated before. When abdominal surgery was suggested, Kim admitted to John that she was pregnant and would not do anything not to harm her baby. Another doctor on staff had been working on an experimental antibiotic which might cure Kim. John arranged to have her given the medication, and it was all under a strict cover of secrecy. Kim convinced John that she had to keep her condition a secret because Jen had been experiencing pregnancy complications too, and Kim did not want to compromise her sister’s condition.

John saw Kim’s pregnancy as a golden opportunity. He proposed marriage to her, suggesting that he would raise her baby as his own, but Kim refused, arguing that she did not need a man to save her. Jennifer was upset that she could not find her sister, who was still hospitalized. Lisa broke down and told Jen to alleviate her fears, but Bob refused to go, which infuriated Jen. Once again she accused Bob of being completely insensitive to her own family. Bob’s “insensitivity” reached a fever pitch when Jen learned that Kim was pregnant and insisted that she accept John’s proposal rather than embarrass the family with an illegitimate child. After Kim held steadfast that she did not love John, Jen begged Bob to talk sense into Kim, and naturally he refused, as he knew that he was the father. This drove a serious wedge between Bob and Jen, whose relationship was already tenuous at best. Nancy noted Bob’s increasingly erratic behavior and blamed Jennifer. Unable to deal with the pressure of knowing that he had fathered babies with his wife and her sister, Bob went to Chris and confessed the situation, withholding only the identity of the other woman. Chris was absolutely mortified by Bob’s confession. For once the elder Hughes could not muster any sensible advice, but he did attempt to intercede when Nancy mistakenly continued to blame Jen for Bob’s depression and ill temper.

The pressure on Bob continued to grow into the autumn of 1973. The faces of Jen and Kim haunted his dreams and every waking moment as he was consumed by guilt and the burden of his humiliating secret. By this time, John and Rick had opened a private medical practice together. Almost daily they discussed the family gossip. Rick had heard from another doctor about an experimental drug being used on a patient who was paranoid about the circumstances of her pregnancy. When John talked about Kim, Rick started putting all of the pieces of the last six months together: the strange behaviors of his mother, his aunt, and his stepfather. He remembered that Bob went away on a medical convention around the same time that Kim took a vacation to the south. Suddenly, all of the pieces to the puzzle began to form in his mind. John had urged Kim to hostess a lavish party he was giving for the medical community. Kim was a huge hit with everyone, and John became even more resolved to make her his wife, as many of the most important contacts were inviting her, not him, to future parties and functions.

Bob had taken Jen to Vermont on a vacation to attempt to save their faltering marriage. One night, Kim thought that someone was trying to break into her apartment. In her panic she wanted to call Bob, but he was gone. She phoned John instead. John reassured her that he would always be there for her and the baby, so she might as well agree to marry to him. Exhausted and alone, Kim began to crack, but she warned him that if she married him, it would be for their mutual benefit, not love. She did not love him and would not be a real wife to him. Also, he must never ever ask her about the identity of her child’s father. John agreed to these demands. In Vermont, Bob and Jen discussed their problems, and Bob agreed to try to patch up his relationship Rick, even though Bob privately knew that Rick had been deceiving Jen all along, and that he (Rick) had always been the one to create tension between them. Back in Oakdale, Bob met with Rick to put aside their differences, but Rick had almost figured out the secret Bob and Kim had been carrying around. Rick rejected Bob’s overtures of friendship, then lied to Jennifer that Bob had confessed his real feelings of disgust for the Ryan family. When Bob arrived home, he and Jennifer had a violent argument. Hurt and angry at Bob’s apparent betrayal, Jennifer screamed that she only reconciled with Bob because of the child she was carrying, and she in fact did not want it and had considered an abortion. She ran from the apartment, leaving Bob stunned.

This was around early October 1973, just as the show was heading into fall sweeps. Jennifer went to Kim’s apartment and told her everything that had happened with Bob. Kim, loving Bob and Jennifer both, advised her sister to return to Bob. Despite all of their problems, there was a child coming soon, an innocent baby deserving of two parents, who could give all their love to their child if not to one another. Jen agreed and wandered away from Kim’s in daze. Kim suddenly realized how selfish she had been with her own problem and her resolve to not to marry any man because of her need to be loved by only Bob. Kim asked John over, and when he arrived, she agreed to marry him if he would drop everything and go with her to Nevada that night.

After their horrific argument, Bob was frantic to find Jen. He drove around the streets of Oakdale, and finally realizing she might have gone to Kim’s, he headed in that direction. Driving toward Kim’s, he spotted Jen in the distance walking alongside the street. He pulled over and ran after her. Catching up with her, they resumed their quarrel from earlier, with Jen becoming even more hysterical. She accused him of not loving her because of the baby. It had always been about the baby. He saw her as fat and ugly because of the life she was carrying inside of her and did not want her. She pulled away from him and ran out into the street directly in front of an oncoming car. This was actually a location sequence done outside the studio. Bob ran after her and shoved her out of the way only be struck by the car himself.

He was rushed to Memorial in critical condition, and David told Jen that they were not sure if Bob would survive. Frantic, Jen phoned Kim, who unbeknownst to her was in Reno marrying John. When Rick arrived at Memorial, Jen tried to explain that Bob had saved her life and the life of their child by pushing her to safety, but Rick coldly says that Jen never would have been on the road in the first place had it not been for Bob’s hatred of their family, and if Bob dies, he’s getting what he deserves. Horrified, Jen suddenly realizes the depth of Rick’s resentment and jealousy for Bob, and that Bob had been telling her the truth all along: Rick hated Bob, not vice versa. Jen goes to Bob’s bedside as he comes out of surgery for serious internal injuries. His life still hanging in the balance, Jen apologizes to him for being so blind about her son and tells Bob that she loves him and wants them to start over afresh once he recovers. Heavily medicated, Bob regains semi-consciousness and professes his love for his beautiful Jen. He rambles on deliriously explaining how hurt he was that Jennifer chose to believe her son’s lies over his truth and how he had turned to Kim in a moment of weakness when he thought Jen had left him forever. Bob confesses that Kim’s unborn baby is his, and that the guilt of that, hurting Jen so much, has been the reason he turned away from his beloved wife and her family. It was guilt and shame, not hatred for the Ryan family. Jen is shocked to the core by what she hears, and quietly leaves.

Crying alone in their home, Jen accepts her part in what has happened. She now realizes that Bob does love her deeply is genuinely repentant for the mistake he made with Kim. Jen is also frightened though as she now fears the feelings Bob and Kim may have for one another and the connection they will always have through the child they created. Jen wants to confide these secrets to someone but knows that she cannot. When Bob’s condition improves and recovery is assured, Jen goes to him and reassures him that things will be better once they are reunited. Bob asks her if he said anything while drugged, and Jen quietly replies that he said enough to prove how much he loves her.

However, John is rabidly suspicious of Kim’s reaction when they return to Oakdale as newlyweds, and Kim learns about Bob’s accident. John finds Kim’s reaction extreme, and talking with Rick once again about the events of the last six months, John begins to absorb Rick’s curiosity about how the pieces of the puzzle fit together. John surprises Kim with a honeymoon vacation to Florida, where they stay at the Palm Colony hotel. John monitors Kim’s face closely for reactions to her to environment and the answers she gives to his questions about her stay there last April. John now knows that Bob and Kim had an affair resulting in Kim’s pregnancy while Bob and Jen were separated. John silently seethes inside that his wife is about to give birth to the child of a man he abhors. Once home, he decides to play his cards close to his vest and not use this information yet, but things take an unexpected turn when Kim, only seven months pregnant, is gripped with a violent contraction and fears that she is going into premature labor.

Sorry to go on and on for so long, but these storylines were super! The acting was subtle and the writing understated. That was the secret to As the World Turns. It was slow and hypnotic and kept the audience guessing about what was really going on. Once all was apparent, the writers would have the stories crash together simultaneously in an exciting crescendo of drama. God I miss those days.

Edited July 3, 2011 by saynotoursoap

[saynotoursoap]

That Sean is actor Mark Lewis, who had previously played Mindy's late husband Kurt Corday on GL. Burke Moses, the previous Sean, had left at the end of his contract in 1991 to do a play, I believe. The character of Sean Baxter was written out and then came back on a recurring basis played by Mark Lewis. In real life, Lewis married Mary Ellen Stuart who was playing Frannie Hughes Crawford. The last I heard they are still married and teach acting in Illnois.

[DRW50]

Wow. I didn't recognize Mark Lewis at all! I had seen him on GL, but he seemed a bit more round-faced there, and didn't use that accent. I only know Mary Ellen's outside work from those Rooms 2 Go commercials she did for years with Ed Fry (I miss those). I'm glad she found happiness. Watching these episodes again I realize even more what a difficult job she had as Frannie, not only replacing a popular actress, but also in playing a character who could easily be called a big fool, yet somehow managing to make her trusting nature and empathy believable.

Thank you for the in depth synopsis of the story with Kim, John, Jennifer, and Bob. It sounds incredible. Do you have any idea of when Irna's material ended and when the Soderbergs began? The Daytime TV Stars obit on Irna said that she had been working heavily on ATWT (due to the writers strike) a month before her death. I always wonder what plans Irna would have had for Kim and Bob, and for their baby. I also wonder if the show had Kim gradually fall out of love with Bob, and then in love with Dan (I know she first connected with Dan through Betsy). It's interesting though because the show still had Bob and Kim connected through story, so clearly the viewers did have some need for the two of them to share story.

Did Kim and Rick have any type of bond or did he mostly just see her as a means to an end?

I guess Nancy's reservations about Jennifer continued for some time; a few years after this they had the story where Nancy and Bob disagreed with Jennifer's wishes to go to college.

I'd especially love to see the moment where Bob tells Chris about the affair.

[Soapsuds]

I loved this Sean. That's Mark Lewis.He was on GL and played Mindy's bf/husband Kurt Corday. He was killed in an explosion on a Lewis Oil rig near the coast of Venezuela in November 1986 He married Roxie Shayne to stay in the US. The marriage was later annulled.

I hated previous Sean..Burke Moses...he seemed to gay in the role....lol

[Soapsuds]

I also thought they might go the Scott and Margo direction to make the tension with Tom even better but Marland never went that direction.

I thought SMS was on contract during the time.

T think Frannie found out about Jennifer after the whole Carolyn Crawford Murder Mystery was solved.

As for Ben..I remember him taking various leave of absences at the time but I dont recall for what..

[saynotoursoap]

Irna was let go at the end of the writer's strike, which lasted from March - June 1973. However, the Watergate hearings were also airing practically every day that summer, resulting in all of the soaps being taped well in advance. After a short while, the networks agreed collaboratively to rotate coverage of the hearings, so that one week CBS might air the hearings on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday with NBC coverage on Tuesday and Thursday, and then the next week, they would all shift with NBC taking three days, and ABC two. The point is that material was taped in advance and then delayed because of preemeptions. I am fairly certain that the Soderberg's material began airing July 1973. This was around the time that the Amy Hughes story wrapped up very quickly and she disappeared, the story of Peter Burton also started to wind down suddenly, and also the revelation to Bob and Jen of Kim's pregnancy after her attack of peritonitis. This is the point where old stories were being tied up and new ones that would continue in 1974 started.

No, Kim was not particularly friendly with Rick at all. She recognized his manipulation of Jennifer as well as his unwarranted prejudice against Bob. Rick was a real prick, and for me, not an interesting one such as John was. I really did not care for the character or Con Roche's performance, so his departure did not bug me one bit. Admittedly, though, Doug Marland mined that story very well when he retconned Kim's miscarriage into Sabrina. He also cleverly used the established mutual dislike of Bob by Rick and John to create a believable story of how the baby could have survived. This was definitely a strength of Marland and also the Soderbergs who had carefully crafted the original plot and attitudes of the characters.

[P.J.]

Ben Hendrickson quit in '91/'92, that's why they killed Hal off. I think he came back a year later, and they said he'd been in the witness protection program.